Local Tourney rules, how to build a proper army

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Liquidedust
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Local Tourney rules, how to build a proper army

Post by Liquidedust »

Well local tournaments here run by these rules, and I really have a hard time to build an competative list where Dark Elves can excel. So after looking at the restrictions in place you could maybe give me some pointers in regards to how to properly build with these rules and restrictions in mind.

General Restrictions

2400 Points.
No Special or Named Characters.
Army used can be any of the currently published GW Army books. Forge World based army lists & units may not be used on the event, except for Chaos Dwarves.
A maximum of 3 identical core choices may be taken (regardless of equipment and other upgrades)
An army may have up to 4 war machines and shooting template weapons. Warmachines that use a template count as a single choice in this regard. All template weapons (from magic items, abilities, etc.) count, except for spells. Bolt thr. count as ½ a war machine(round up).
Max. 45 models with missile weapons with a range of 20”+ (not incl. war machines, characters and chariots).
All BSBs can take all the Equipment, their unit type has acces to as if they weren't BSBs.

Unit sizes are limited as follows:
Units cannot be more than 40 models nor 450 points (including all command, upgrades, magic items/banners). This restriction applies during the creation of the roster - unit size/cost may be increased during the game (for example - by joining characters to the unit). This restriction does not apply to characters.

Magic Restrictions:
- Apart from Winds of magic, an army may only use 2 PD/DD per magic phase. After an army generates the limit all the other extra dice are discarded. This includes channeled PD/DD.
- Player can use maximum 5 PD to cast a spell. For death & shadow spells this max is lowered to 4 power dice.
- An army may use up to 12 PD during each phase.
- You may have units/abilities that actually would generate more than 2 extra dice, but any excess dice are lost
- Some magic items/abilities count as generating dice toward this limit.
- “Count as” items/abilities may never exceed a cumulative 2 PD/DD per phase. This means that player who already spent his limit PD limit, cant take more items which “count as adding PD” or add PD from channeling during game (same for DD).
- All modifiers are applied from the army list and will not change during the game.

Detailed description
Apart from Winds of magic, an army may only use 2 PD/DD per magic phase (unless army restrictions specify otherwise). After an army generates the limit all the other extra dice are discarded. This includes channeled PD/DD.

If a dice is stolen from the opponent’s pool, but your army has already generated two extra dice, the dice is removed from the opponent’s pool and then discarded.

Some special items and abilities DECREASE the limit of power or dispel dice you can add to the pool. We refer to those as “count as” items. What this means is that, if your roster includes one “counts as 1 Power Dice (PD)” item, your army can only add 1 power dice (instead of the usual 2 dice) to the pool in each of your own magic phases of the entire game (regardless of whether the item is destroyed or used up).
Please note that you cannot have a combination of items that would decrease the limit of extra power or dispel dice to below zero.

Item restrictions
- Any item that auto-dispels a spell counts as generating 1 DD each magic phase.
- Folding Fortress is not allowed


Army Specific Restrictions

Beastmen: Beastmen armies have an extra 200 points for their roster (2600 total), All victory points scored against this army are decreased by 10% (excluding bonus points for banners, general, etc.), Beastmen can generate 3 extra pd instead of 2. Can use 4 instead of 3 same core units and have a unit cap of 50 models per unit and point cap on units 550 instead of 450 pts.

Bretonnia: No Restrictions

Chaos Dwarfs:
Hellcannon, Iron daemon are each 0-1.
Iron daemon, kdai destroyer count as war machines.
Chalice of darkness counts as 2 pd.
Max 3 out of Str. 5 shooting templates, Kdai destroyer.
Chalice or Sorcerer Prophet.
Lore of Hashut can be cast with max 4 PD.

Dark Elves: Hydra is a 0-1 choice. Max. 35 repeater Crossbows (including characters and excluding chariots) in the army. Repeater Bolt Throwers 0-2. Harpies are 0-2. Shades max 20 models per army, Pendant of khaeleth cannot be taken by lord characters, player may take up to 2 of following: Pendant of khaeleth\Crown of command\Cauldron of Blood\Hydra.

Dwarfs: Each spellbreaker/spelleater rune counts as +1 DD. Grudge Throwers are a 0-2 choice; May generate Max. +4 dispel dice instead of +2; gyrocopter doesn't count for max 4 war machine/template.

Daemons of Chaos: Max. 30 Models per unit; All daemonic gifts are 0-1. Daemonic Battle Standard can have gifts if his magic banner does not cost over 50pts. Siren song cannot be taken by Herald of Slaanesh. Max 6 flamers in the army. MOS: For Heralds of Tzeentch only it is a 0-2 gift and the Loremaster rule is removed; instead randomly determine spells (as a normal lvl 2) from any of the 8 rulebook lores.

The Empire: Steam tank 0-1. Cannons 0-3, steam stank count as a cannon.

High Elves: High Elves armies have an extra 100 points for their roster (2500 total); High elves army can generate extra 3 powerdice instead of 2; Vortex Shard counts as +1DD; Book of Hoeth counts as 3PD and 2 DD; Banner of the World Dragon counts as +1 DD

Lizardmen: Salamanders are a 0-1 Choice;Scar-Veterans 0-2, player may take up to 2 of following: Beclaming Cogitations\ Focus of Mystery\ Focused Rumination \Higher State of Consciusness; Beclaming Cogitations counts as +2DD; Cupped hands of the Old Ones counts as +2PD; Higher State of Consciusness counts as 2 discplines (takes two slots, but cost same points); Crown of Command & Higher State of Consciousness cannot be taken on 1 model; A maximum total of 6 Skink, Chameleon skinks and Skink Cohorts units combined maybe taken in an army (Cohorts containing kroxigor or numbering above 20 models do not count for this restriction). Max 1 of these in army death lore/bane head/feedback scroll

Ogre Kingdoms: Hellheart counts as 2dd & 1pd, Greedyfist on death mage counts as 2dd, Rune Maw Banner counts as 1dd. Each leadbelcher/ sniper maneater with pistol(s) counts as 3 models towards to shooting cap. Max 3 combined units of Mournfang Cav & Ironblaster. 0-1 Ironblaster.

Orcs&Goblins: Night Goblin Shamans mushroom dice do not count as power dice in regard to the PD limit. Maximum model cap is 60 models per unit. +100 pts.

Skaven: All Skaven rare choices 0-1; Gutter runners are limited by 2 units & 20 models total; Engineers are a 0-3 choice; Can take max 2 of the following: doom rocket, brass orb, storm banner.

Vampire Counts: Master of black arts & blasphemous tome upgradeare 1pd each. 0- 3 etheral units (incl. Heroes). 0-2 red fury and/or quickblood abilities. 0-4 howls (death shriek counts as 2). 0-1 Terrorgheist , a max of 4 flying units, max 15 mounted characters and black knights combined.

Tomb Kings: Tomb King armies have an extra 200 points for their roster (2600 total), All victory points scored against this army are decreased by 10% (excluding bonus points for banners, general, etc.), Neferra's Scrolls of Mighty Incantations counts as 2 PD AND 2 DD. Hierotitan is worth 1 PD so long as it's alive. Sphinxes of all kinds: 0-3 per army. Tomb Kings may generate up to 3 power dice per phase

Wood Elves: Wood Elf armies have an extra 200 points for their roster (2600 total) All victory points scored against this army are decreased by 10% (excluding bonus points for banners, general, etc.), Wood Elves can take 4 of the same core unit instead of 3, Wand of Wych Elm counts as +1 DD; Only Glade guards (including scouts) count for max of 45 models with shooting weapons.
Warriors of Chaos: Hellcannon is a 0-1 choice. Infernal Puppet counts as +1 PD and +2DD; If you have warriors, knights and or chosen with marks of tzeentch in army then you can take max 2 out of 3 of warshrines and favor of the gods (2xwarshrines or warshrine and favor of the gods).

All the restrictions really seem to stack stuff against certain aspects of a competative dark elves tourney lists, but also limits shooty armies some so it is not all bad for me I suppose. The really big deal for me is that it really hampers a Hydra list and makes magic a lot weaker for Dark Elves in general and in addition penalizes a shooty Dark Elves list as well.

So any general suggestions, thoughts and ideas in regards to these rules and restrictions?

In regards to which models I have available just assume I can pretty much build any army I so fancy. Have a fairly large collection of Dark Elves myself and what I do not own myself I tend to be able to borrow froma friend of mine.

Also I am generally a collector, sculper and painter - I do not play as much, but I am not the one who says no to a game or local tournament.
Last edited by Liquidedust on Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Mobius
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Post by Mobius »

Seems like a cool challenge. I'll build a list when I have some time.

Here are some initial thoughts though:

1. Looks like you could do a really good Hydra Banner BSB on a Cold One, joining a Banner of HG CoK unit. Since you can tool up the BSB, you can protect him with the PoK if you want.

2. I think Shades are still viable and would continue to be excellent.

3. My 2400 Core choice has been: 14 RxB, 14 RxB, 20 Corsairs with SSS, and 14 Warriors for the dagger. I did pretty well with it, and this seems to still fit the comp. Tweak as needed of course! Side note - you could still fit in 7 shades with this and be under comp restrictions.

4. Lvl 4 Lore of Dark with the Sac Dagger or Focus Familiar looks like a winnder with this comp. Sac Dagger is only nerfed by the max 2 bonus PD a turn, but that's still pretty darn good.

5. In this comp, I'd choose PoK and Cauldron of Blood as my 2 of 4. CoB with Witches, PoK on BSB hero would still rock.


My general list would likely look like this (will tweak later)-

Lvl 4 of Dark, Sac Dagger
Lvl 2 of Metal, Dispel Scroll
BSB Hero on Cold One, Hydra Banner, HA, SDC, PoK, Magic Weapon of choice (I'd go for the Great weapon personally.)
CoB

14 Xbows, Mus
14 Xbows, Mus
20 Corsairs, SSS, Mus
14 Warriors
5 Harpies
5 Harpies

20 Witches, Flaming Banner
9 CoK, Standard of HG, Mus
1 Chariot

No clue how that totals up, but it seems like it should be close and fits the comp?

Mobius
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Thanee
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Post by Thanee »

Looks like ETC rules. :)

In the german tournament scene the army composition rules are quite a bit more restrictive. ;)

It's not hard to build a very competitive army with those rules.

445 Level 4 (Dark Magic) with Lifetaker, Sacrificial Dagger, Seal of Ghrond
225 CoB BSB -or- 183 Master on CO BSB with Soulrender, HA, SDC, Pendant of Khaeleth

310 40 Warriors with Shields, FC, Standard of Discipline
235 20 RXB with Shields, M, SB
55 5 Harpies
55 5 Harpies

360 30 Witch Elves with FC, Manbane, Banner of Eternal Flame
370 10 Cold One Knights with FC, Whip of Agony, Standard of Hag Graef
85 5 Shades with AHW
85 5 Shades with AHW

175 War Hydra

Something like that...

Bye
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Dyvim tvar
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

If you have the models to do it, I think an Executioner horde is probably the most effective thing you can center you army around under ETC rules.
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Rabidnid
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Post by Rabidnid »

Easy enough. Run CoB and the Hydra out of the 4 choices.

a big spear &/or corsair horde for KB

a big witch or executioner block for high strength

2xharpies, hydra, CoB, lvl 4 general with dark.

CoCs, CoKs RXB and shades to taste.
"Luck is the residue of design"
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