BEST ARMY LIST EVER (and coolest)

[Lord Aenarion]

Hi guys!


I am really a veteran in the game who used to play a lot in the 6th edition and fell in love with the Dark Elves in the 7th edition.

Always loved to synergies units so that they are multifunctional and able to handle any threat that comes their way. I used to rank up crossbowmen, run huge blocks of Lothern Seaguard and bring a massive amount of cannons.

The problem was always that even though this was super efficient, I always was annoyed of not having a real kick in the units when the half-dead units finally caught up with my units and sometimes managed to slaughter my hordes.

This is not longer a problem for the Noble Dark Elves! Think about it, this is really the only army that is able to totally out-shoot the army and still having a MASSIVE kick on the charge.

How is this possible you say? The crossbowmen is way to soft to have any change against real infantry or cavalry. Only 1 attack, low armor and S1 is not going to give you the glorious victories that you have always dreamed about. Huge blocks of any infantry will slaughter them or at least break them because of the outnumbering, ranks and scary characters.

Well think again! We, and ONLY WE are finally able to have ALL the benefits from supreme fire power as well as monster combat units AWESOME!!!


Horde units of rep crossbowmen a.k.a. "Dark Shards" and DEATH HAGS I tell you. Wicked and sinister DEATH HAGS with support from bodyguard ASSASSINS


With 3 units of at least 30 crossbowmen, accompanied by 2 Hags and 2 assassin body guards to protect her from whatever threat comes your way (don't want those beauties dying on you).

Now these units fight with 3 attacks in the front, 3 rank deep horde units which will give you a whooping 50 AF attacks with re rolls on the first turn! This is before you even consider the assassins and the witch which is pretty scary herself.

Every unit fires 40 shoots every turn, 60 when charged and large targets (total of at least 120 in total every turn) while you force your opponent to approach your army because of the massive volleys from the 4 Bolt Throwers you spread out across your battle line.

Throw in some harpies, a cheap War Hydra or two, Warlocks to enhance your already devastating shooting and maybe even a Black Dragon.

There you go. An elite army in every way. Protect your Hags and Wizards and destroy your opponents chaff with shooting and your own chaff. Destroy hard hitters with Massive bolts and monsters. Slay hordes with your superior crossbowmen.

Let me know your thoughts


For MELKITH!!!

[T.D.]

Like the name

I've experimented with large blocks of Rxb with the old book but couldn't get it to work. With the new book and cheaper RBT there are more options for such lists.

Adding Hags and Assassins to regular infantry is an unusual approach that I'd like to try for myself. It sounds interesting and would combine well with a Shadow or Dark mage.

P.S. Best and coolest is highly subjective

[direweasel]

I think your effectiveness will depend largely on what kind of battlefield you play on. If you play on what I like to call a "golf course" type board, with limited terrain, and open lines of sight throughout the board, you'll be dangerous. Your shooting will make it tough for opponents to advance.

If you play on tables that are absolutely littered with terrain you will have a tougher time. Most people will find it somewhere in between.

Also, you will do better against some armies than others. Against most Dwarf or Empire armies, forget it. They will be just as happy to sit back and shoot you, and they have cannons. Cannons > Bolt throwers and crossbows. Wood Elves would probably just stand back and outshoot you as well.

Against high toughness armies and super heavily armored armies (Chaos Warriors especially), you won't kill enough of them before they get across the table at you. The Hag+Assassin won't be enough for you to win in melee most of the time.

Against most other armies, you could probably do pretty well.

[kunimitsu]

Interesting. Really good concept and different so it gets bonus points for that. I think traditional gun lines (empire and dwarves) would do it better, but no one will expect to fight dark elves like that. Something I wouldn't mind trying out. Thanks for the list/ideas...

[Amboadine]

Frenzied missile units; interesting concept certainly. The Best and Coolest....well debatable
Not my favourite idea of all time, but could do well against some list.

[Lord Aenarion]

Thanks for the feedback guys

I will definitely have to try this out a couple of games to get the feel for it but I am pretty sure it will be rocking.



Some thoughts of mine on your comments:

First of all. Every time you make super dangerous units, with for instants Executioners, you will be guaranteed to make them targeted with EVERYTHING your opponent have to offer even before they have the chance to get them in to combat. Also you give up a lot of possibility for shooting which is why we see small puny units of crossbowmen which basically is just an distraction for the opponent. You can, of course, even the odds out with carrying multiple units with dangerous hand combat units but you run the risk of getting your army shoot to pieces anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKkimmlJzgQ

Second of all. You DO still have hard hitting high strength units with 4 Bolt throwers to slay any monsters on the table as well as 1 or 2 monsters. I would throw in 2 Hydras if I really want to make a potent list but since I absolutely LOVE the Black Dragon, I will probably go for a hydra and a Black Dragon or only a Black Dragon, depends on the points I got. This means that it WILL NOT be the S3 repeater crossbowmen that tries to slay the monsters but they will certainly be able to handle any infantry coming their way by first withering them down, causing panic and then killing any last models off with ease.

Frenzied missile units; interesting concept certainly. The Best and Coolest....well debatable
Not my favourite idea of all time, but could do well against some list.

I really think you get the most versatile army possible. If you go with a theme army you run the possibility of getting it squished against "the wrong" kind of opponent but this way you are able to adopt your army to whatever foe coming your way.

Interesting. Really good concept and different so it gets bonus points for that. I think traditional gun lines (empire and dwarves) would do it better, but no one will expect to fight dark elves like that. Something I wouldn't mind trying out. Thanks for the list/ideas...

Naaaaah, tried it with Empire and it is a real pain in the but not being able to handle yourself in the close combat phases. It means that you have to give up a lot of potential shooting to support the units with other stuff. Can do it off course but I love the idea with having HEAVY shooting, forcing your opponent to throw hes units towards you only to discover it makes absolutely no difference

I think your effectiveness will depend largely on what kind of battlefield you play on. If you play on what I like to call a "golf course" type board, with limited terrain, and open lines of sight throughout the board, you'll be dangerous. Your shooting will make it tough for opponents to advance.

If you play on tables that are absolutely littered with terrain you will have a tougher time. Most people will find it somewhere in between.

Also, you will do better against some armies than others. Against most Dwarf or Empire armies, forget it. They will be just as happy to sit back and shoot you, and they have cannons. Cannons > Bolt throwers and crossbows. Wood Elves would probably just stand back and outshoot you as well.

Against high toughness armies and super heavily armored armies (Chaos Warriors especially), you won't kill enough of them before they get across the table at you. The Hag+Assassin won't be enough for you to win in melee most of the time.

Against most other armies, you could probably do pretty well.

Yes, definitely a pain in the ass scenarios. Here are some of mine thoughts on it:

Golf course, definitely a bonus but not a necessity. Remember, we have Repeater Crossbows which means that we are super deadly at quite short distances. We are also able to move and shoot so you will always get the first turn on firing if you want it. Also there will very seldom be entire armies with shooting units so just the fact that you have 4 Bolt Throwers and 90 Repeater Crossbowmen will mean you outshout any army really. Any army that out-shoots you will still having difficulties with 2 hydras and 2 units of warlock (4+ward) coming at them since ALL of them will loose in close combat just against our chaff

Chaos Warriors will still having to deal with HEAVY MAGIC, 4 Bolt throwers and a Monster or two as well as 2 assassins with 5 killing blow attacks each (you can also fire 8 killing blow hand weapons at them when they charge). You can also create deeeeeeep ranks with your units when you face those super armored units that you do not think will get shoot down to smithereens by your shooting. Like Chaos knights or huge monsters and Daemons.

Like the name

I've experimented with large blocks of Rxb with the old book but couldn't get it to work. With the new book and cheaper RBT there are more options for such lists.

Adding Hags and Assassins to regular infantry is an unusual approach that I'd like to try for myself. It sounds interesting and would combine well with a Shadow or Dark mage.

P.S. Best and coolest is highly subjective

Yea it is a difficult army to pull off. In Warhammer, shooting is pretty bad but when you have MASSIVE amount of shooting you will create a head ache for your opponent. You can not have a small unit of like 20 crossbowmen and think you can have the lightest chance to stop the gigantic hordes that are out there these days but when you have 60 crossbowmen = 120 shoots every turn and a whooping 180 bolts on the charge you will create absolute mayhem. On top of this you will be firing 24 S4 armour piercing bolts and on top of that you will have magic missiles to even boost this further and all this BEFORE you are in hand to hand combat with your now totally lethal units and monsters Should be pretty potent.



Again guys, thanks for your feedback. If you have any more comments feel free to add them and I would also love to hear how this works out for you in your battles. It probably takes a couple of games to get the tactics working properly. I am not seeing this out there but I am SURE it will catch on when you can see how devastating it becomes. And cool...

[Gerner]

What lore do you think would be best?
Lore of Heaven seems to be ideal, so does Dark Magic.

[direweasel]

I'm a pretty big fan of shadow magic. Mindrazor is awesome for us because of our high Init. Pit of shades murders low I troops. Buff our guys, debuff theirs.

The signature spell for beast magic is nice for us too. +1S, +1T to a unit is handy, and it's pretty cheap to cast.

[Amboadine]

In Warhammer, shooting is pretty bad but when you have MASSIVE amount of shooting you will create a head ache for your opponent. You can not have a small unit of like 20 crossbowmen and think you can have the lightest chance to stop the gigantic hordes that are out there these days but when you have 60 crossbowmen = 120 shoots every turn and a whooping 180 bolts on the charge you will create absolute mayhem. On top of this you will be firing 24 S4 armour piercing bolts and on top of that you will have magic missiles to even boost this further and all this BEFORE you are in hand to hand combat with your now totally lethal units and monsters Should be pretty potent.

Do you have a sample list to share, interested to see how you are fitting in all this shooting, plus monsters and magic and war machines? I am waiting to be convinced by the sheer magnificance of your list
Even better any battle reports to share. Hoping you are on to something here, don't see mass hordes of Druchii generally.

[MangoPunch]

It looks fun Aenarion, but I don't think you broke the game. You will struggle against T4 armoured infantry, Cavalry buses and flying circuses. You will also have trouble fitting in all the toys you want to bring. 90 RXB (no shields), 4 RBT, 2x Witch Brew Death Hags, 2x basic Assasins comes to 1,860 points - leaving you 540 (in a typical 2.4k game) to kit out your characters and add "Harpies" (75), "a Hydra" (160), "or two" (160), "warlocks" (125), "a black dragon" (440), "awesome magic" (220)... or 1,180 worth of stuff at the most basic level without any upgrades.... good luck.

Also, how are you getting 180 bolts on the charge when you write "60 crossbowmen = 120 shoots every turn and a whooping 180 bolts on the charge"??

[Lord Aenarion]

Awesome comments guys, thanks a lot!

You will definitely have to play around with this a couple of games to get a feel for it. Having lots of missile troops is a tough job but VERY rewording when you get it working right.

The core idea of all this is to out-shoot your opponent with volumes and volumes of missile fire while at the same time being able to use very potent hand to hand combat. This is SUPER POINTS EFFICIENT when you think about it. Instead of having to spend all your points on massive hand to hand combat units while poorly supporting them with small missile fire which, in Warhammer, does you no good what so ever.

I love that the Dark Elves is pretty much the only army out there which can combine these elements except the High Elves, but who would ever want to field an High Elf army any way...

So just to summarize the core of the idea:


1 Lv 4 Sorceress.

2 Hags and 2 body guard Assassins (now with 5 killing blow each).

3 units of crossbowmen with shields, 30 each.

4 Bolt Throwers.

The rest is up to you...

I would suggest 2 Hydras and a unit of Warlocks or two but whatever floats your boat The Hydras are super cheap, gives you a shiz load of high strength attacks and will draw missile fire away from your fragile troops. The Warlocks are, again, multi functional. Mage, fast cav and ward save 4+!!! You can use these for killing scouts, destroying war machines, magic support as well as protecting the entire army with ward save.

What lore do you think would be best?
Lore of Heaven seems to be ideal, so does Dark Magic.

Reallly 2 approaches to this. Either you buff your units or increase your fire power even further but I would go with buffing your units. Since you already have MASSIVE fire power which will possibly destroy the most part of your opponents, you really need to be able to handle the ones who don't.

I'm a pretty big fan of shadow magic. Mindrazor is awesome for us because of our high Init. Pit of shades murders low I troops. Buff our guys, debuff theirs.

The signature spell for beast magic is nice for us too. +1S, +1T to a unit is handy, and it's pretty cheap to cast.

Yes I will try that out for sure.

In Warhammer, shooting is pretty bad but when you have MASSIVE amount of shooting you will create a head ache for your opponent. You can not have a small unit of like 20 crossbowmen and think you can have the lightest chance to stop the gigantic hordes that are out there these days but when you have 60 crossbowmen = 120 shoots every turn and a whooping 180 bolts on the charge you will create absolute mayhem. On top of this you will be firing 24 S4 armour piercing bolts and on top of that you will have magic missiles to even boost this further and all this BEFORE you are in hand to hand combat with your now totally lethal units and monsters Should be pretty potent.

Do you have a sample list to share, interested to see how you are fitting in all this shooting, plus monsters and magic and war machines? I am waiting to be convinced by the sheer magnificance of your list
Even better any battle reports to share. Hoping you are on to something here, don't see mass hordes of Druchii generally.

No unfortunately not. I will definetly in a month time since I am not an active gamer but I will make something happen with the local Warhammer lair

It looks fun Aenarion, but I don't think you broke the game. You will struggle against T4 armoured infantry, Cavalry buses and flying circuses. You will also have trouble fitting in all the toys you want to bring. 90 RXB (no shields), 4 RBT, 2x Witch Brew Death Hags, 2x basic Assasins comes to 1,860 points - leaving you 540 (in a typical 2.4k game) to kit out your characters and add "Harpies" (75), "a Hydra" (160), "or two" (160), "warlocks" (125), "a black dragon" (440), "awesome magic" (220)... or 1,180 worth of stuff at the most basic level without any upgrades.... good luck.

Also, how are you getting 180 bolts on the charge when you write "60 crossbowmen = 120 shoots every turn and a whooping 180 bolts on the charge"??

Great point Amboadine. I think I clarified it a bit in this post but the idea was to make a couple of suggestions for you to play around with. If I really want a potent list I simply go with 2 hydras and 1-2 units of Warlocks because these are the most points efficient units in the entire army. But if I want to play a game for fun I just switch that for my lovely Black Dragon (maiby removing a Boltthrower and a couple of crossbowmen if needed).

The 180 bolts on the charge means your opponents charge since you sit back and give it to them. If I dont remember incorrectly, you fire with an additional rank when you take "stand and shoot" charge reaction from your opponents.


Since I am not an active gamer now days, I do not come around to try this for a while but will post as soon as I do.

Feel free to try it out your self and I would love to hear you out and give feedback

For MELKITH!!!

[MangoPunch]

I like the idea of the list, think it would be much more powerful if you only take the minimum core of repeater crossbows and replace the rest with Shades with Great Weapons. Fully kitted shades are 46% more expensive, but that extra 1BS means you should be getting 50-100% more hits (assuming you’re hitting on 5-6s normally). On top of that, the S5 great weapons will benefit much more from extra attacks from frenzy. You would also have flexibility to deploy right in the enemy’s face when against a gun line or at least deploy after all of their units for the best match up. The downside is of course fewer wounds, but skirmishing should make it harder to peal wounds from afar, and the S5 attacks will make them much stronger in close combat.

Check out my Shadelightstar build (Here), it is the next list I am building and might have to experiment with Death Hags with Witch Brew in the future.

[Daeron]

It's an interesting concept, but I'm not convinced by its implementation and the cost effectiveness.

• Stand and shoot is resolved with 2 ranks shooting, AFAIK. 40 shots per turn, and another 40 shots in S&S.
• I doubt the added value of a second hag. I didn't assume the frenzy from the hags stack. Even so, if 40 attacks didn't kill the enemy, I doubt 50 attacks will.
• The assassins offer tricks, but little protection. You can issue only 1 challenge per combat. If your opponent accepts that one challenge with a unit's champion, he has a lot of troops left to attack the hags. The enemy should be (nearly) destroyed to remove the threat which is doubtful with S3 attacks.
• The unit remains fragile. I've seen units of 20-30 RXBs destroyed in one or two turns because the unit is deployed in open field and because T3 and 5+ AS won't stop many missiles/magic.
• You can only shoot one target. Some armies can easily sport a couple of chariots (or more) or flyers or a couple of monsters. Your RXBs can take on only 1, if they succeed even in taking out 1 in time. You'd rely on your mobiles troops in a defence role rather than letting them control the game.

One key strength you haven't mentioned (I think) is that it makes the unit immune to psychology. I've seen large RXB units flee from the table because the BSB was out of range and it's too easy to panic them. Frenzy prevents that.

Another key trick is the assassins' short range shooting weapon (they have throwing weapons by default, right?). This improves the stand and shoot of the RXBs, which is resolved at the distance of the shortest range weapon.

Overall.. the hags, assassins and RXBs make an expensive unit which will probably struggle against high toughness and high armour while being vulnerable to return fire.

I'd recommend a "lightweight" alternative which relies on the unit being more expendable: 30 Crossbows, banner of discipline or the gleaming pennant, and a single hag with the frenzy upgrade. The unit loses little power for being 300 points cheaper. I'd add a second combat unit. Here I'd go one of two options:

• 30 black guard, armour piercing banner then take a metal sorceress and a shadow sorceress. Optionally, just take Shadow. The key here is that you need a lore that buffs your shooting superiority as well as combat. Shadow does that best, and metal (plague of rust ftw!) helps remove the biggest armour threats.
• 30 Executioners, optionally with another hag, and Dark Magic. I'm not fond of mixing these two units. It looks flexible on paper but I feel it plays too well in the cards of my opponents.

This leaves enough points for at least 1 supreme sorceress, 2 DRs, 2 Warlock units, the hag and a Twillight Master giving you all the magic and movement control you like. By my calculations, that puts you close to 2K points, leaving room in a 2.4K list for two monsters and some other fun things.

[Bigboar]

sorry but this list doesn't seem so strong to me...
s3 shooting doesn't win games with a lot of armies: with t4 or high armour (woc bretonnia, empire, he with cavalry chariots... ) and others do the gunline better (dwarfs we and empire) and in close combat is even worst since you lose armour piercing (a few Knights will laugh at those s3 hits)

then the support is not so strong: maybe I playing them wrong but hydras in my games just dies before can even strike (magic, shoot AND low initiative) if you want some support then c. o. chariots are cheaper and more useful with 4 shooting and impact hits, or since you don't have anything to deal with Armours in close combat I would take k beast or small units of executioners. (15 have same price of a hydra with breath)

then hag and assassins will just die as soon as they are hit, and kb doesn't work with throwing or crossbows, also how can 2 assassins have 8 stand and shoot attacks?