Ant's nurgle army for Reading tourney
Moderator: The Dread Knights
Ant's nurgle army for Reading tourney
Now my finals are over I can get back on the tourney scene. So after seeing a few guys here are going I've decided to head down to Reading for the tides of chaos tourney.
I've recently finished my Nurgle Deamon (not SoC) painting project that I had planned to take to the Dutch GT. And since Team Shenanigans has now decided not to go to holland this year now seems as good a time as any for its tournament debut. So here's the list:
Great Unclean One, General 600pts
Aspiring Champion, bsb, undivided, barded steed, Warbanner 146pts
Chaos Sorcerer, Lv2, undivided, barded steed 2x scrolls 186pts
16 Plaguebearers 256pts
3 Nurgling Bases 120pts
5 Furies 75pts
4 Chaos Trolls
4 Chaos Trolls
Chaos Chariot, MoN 135pts
Tuskgor Chariot 85pts
Chaos Giant 205pts
2248pts
8pd/5dd+2 scrolls
38 models/85 wounds
Here's a link to some (bad quality) pics of the army:
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa18 ... le%20army/
As you can see, I've spent some time modelling a few things a bit differently. The nurgling pump wagon is the tuskgor chariot, being the smaller of the 2. I've used old beasts of Nurgle models as the trolls (I chose trolls because they suited the models best), forgeworld winged rippers as my furies and some other conversions for the 2 characters.
The usual tactic is to have the large unit with the GUO in fairly central flanked by the 2 trolls units. The sorcerer and bsb join troll units to provide an undivided stupidity reroll. The giant and nurglings are there mainly to help hold flanks with the chariots as trouble shooters. The furies' role is obvious . I have used alternative setups though some of which work, some that don't, so I can still mix things about a bit.
The idea is that, although my advance is slow, it is also very resiliant. And in order to get a massecre, my opponent will have to take on the big unit with the GUO in. I've managed to get a fairly large number of games in against a variety of opponents while I've been building the army and have been fairly successful so far, notching up somewhere in the region of 9 wins, 4 draws and 4 losses (those numbers are guesstimates though), including one game against DA where I was winning until my GUO miscast and spectacularly blew up taking his entire plaguebearer unit with him! The thing I like the most about this army though is that it always gives a good game for both players; the game is never decided in 2 turns etc. This is because my army is slow but resilient, so it will always reach the enemy in one way or another no matter how much shooting is thrown at it. So a shooty army can shoot the crap out of me for 2 or 3 turns, a manouvreable army can run around my flanks etc. but the points are in the trolls and plaguebearer units, so these units will always have to be taken on at somepoint.
The obvious weakness though is to artillery heavy armies. A 4 cannon empire army will have a field day with the army with all the chariots, multiwound creatures and characters without look out sir rolls. He won't know what to shoot first! There is of course very little I can do about this so if I do play such an opponent I'll just have to grin and bear it, hope for a few misfires and lucky ward saves and be content with the knowledge that if I still have stuff alive in turn 4 cannon crew are easy to kill...
So, thoughts? comments? criticism? Bear in mind that the display base has already been made so any changes I make will still have to fit. This limits me to character setups and an extra fury really, oh and the possibility of a deamon steed for the sorcerer (the extra space was made so I could use it at a 2300pt tourney too). So it is very unlikely that the list itself will be modified. I'd still like to hear any suggestions people have though. Could be interesting.
I've recently finished my Nurgle Deamon (not SoC) painting project that I had planned to take to the Dutch GT. And since Team Shenanigans has now decided not to go to holland this year now seems as good a time as any for its tournament debut. So here's the list:
Great Unclean One, General 600pts
Aspiring Champion, bsb, undivided, barded steed, Warbanner 146pts
Chaos Sorcerer, Lv2, undivided, barded steed 2x scrolls 186pts
16 Plaguebearers 256pts
3 Nurgling Bases 120pts
5 Furies 75pts
4 Chaos Trolls
4 Chaos Trolls
Chaos Chariot, MoN 135pts
Tuskgor Chariot 85pts
Chaos Giant 205pts
2248pts
8pd/5dd+2 scrolls
38 models/85 wounds
Here's a link to some (bad quality) pics of the army:
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa18 ... le%20army/
As you can see, I've spent some time modelling a few things a bit differently. The nurgling pump wagon is the tuskgor chariot, being the smaller of the 2. I've used old beasts of Nurgle models as the trolls (I chose trolls because they suited the models best), forgeworld winged rippers as my furies and some other conversions for the 2 characters.
The usual tactic is to have the large unit with the GUO in fairly central flanked by the 2 trolls units. The sorcerer and bsb join troll units to provide an undivided stupidity reroll. The giant and nurglings are there mainly to help hold flanks with the chariots as trouble shooters. The furies' role is obvious . I have used alternative setups though some of which work, some that don't, so I can still mix things about a bit.
The idea is that, although my advance is slow, it is also very resiliant. And in order to get a massecre, my opponent will have to take on the big unit with the GUO in. I've managed to get a fairly large number of games in against a variety of opponents while I've been building the army and have been fairly successful so far, notching up somewhere in the region of 9 wins, 4 draws and 4 losses (those numbers are guesstimates though), including one game against DA where I was winning until my GUO miscast and spectacularly blew up taking his entire plaguebearer unit with him! The thing I like the most about this army though is that it always gives a good game for both players; the game is never decided in 2 turns etc. This is because my army is slow but resilient, so it will always reach the enemy in one way or another no matter how much shooting is thrown at it. So a shooty army can shoot the crap out of me for 2 or 3 turns, a manouvreable army can run around my flanks etc. but the points are in the trolls and plaguebearer units, so these units will always have to be taken on at somepoint.
The obvious weakness though is to artillery heavy armies. A 4 cannon empire army will have a field day with the army with all the chariots, multiwound creatures and characters without look out sir rolls. He won't know what to shoot first! There is of course very little I can do about this so if I do play such an opponent I'll just have to grin and bear it, hope for a few misfires and lucky ward saves and be content with the knowledge that if I still have stuff alive in turn 4 cannon crew are easy to kill...
So, thoughts? comments? criticism? Bear in mind that the display base has already been made so any changes I make will still have to fit. This limits me to character setups and an extra fury really, oh and the possibility of a deamon steed for the sorcerer (the extra space was made so I could use it at a 2300pt tourney too). So it is very unlikely that the list itself will be modified. I'd still like to hear any suggestions people have though. Could be interesting.
Ash010110 wrote: I completely agree with Ant (Reynolds, I presume?).
(Please note, I am NOT Anthony Reynolds)
TBH...
I love the list!!!
I think that it is a very nurgly army and fits the theme sooo well (bar the furies, although i think that they are needed to add some more competativness to the list, i assume?). I love the resilience of the army and, as you put it, there are very few armies that could take this down at range bar cannon heavy lists. I think even 4 bolt throwers couldnt do the damage required to stomp the list theres just to many multi wound threats.
TBH the way you have described the usage of the list it will really come down to playing ability. From what i gather from other threads etc this may give you a good run at tournies with the list as you seem very competent with the rules and usage of an army on the table top.
I think your army is well structured and for a deamon list very hard. I like the models and conversions as well. The sorcerer stood out in particular and the giant..Is its head a squig?#
I cannot express how much i like the lit its just NURGLIE beyond belief and im intrested to hear how it preforms (any chance of a battle rep ?)
I love the list!!!
I think that it is a very nurgly army and fits the theme sooo well (bar the furies, although i think that they are needed to add some more competativness to the list, i assume?). I love the resilience of the army and, as you put it, there are very few armies that could take this down at range bar cannon heavy lists. I think even 4 bolt throwers couldnt do the damage required to stomp the list theres just to many multi wound threats.
TBH the way you have described the usage of the list it will really come down to playing ability. From what i gather from other threads etc this may give you a good run at tournies with the list as you seem very competent with the rules and usage of an army on the table top.
I think your army is well structured and for a deamon list very hard. I like the models and conversions as well. The sorcerer stood out in particular and the giant..Is its head a squig?#
I cannot express how much i like the lit its just NURGLIE beyond belief and im intrested to hear how it preforms (any chance of a battle rep ?)
The Plague of Nurgle Is Here Resistance Is Futile
Thanks mate!
They're mainly there for the core choice actually. I'm only allowed the single nurgling unit and there is no use for a second plaguebearer unit, so furies it is. The final decider though was when I saw the FW winged ripper models. I immediately knew that they'd make awesome nurgle furies!
Yep, one of the old ones.
I've not used the list since easter so I can't write a rep of any games I've played so far. With a bit of luck I might get one game in with it before the tourney and if I do I'll write a rep. Otherwise I'll try to write a tourney report in a fortnight's time.
bar the furies, although i think that they are needed to add some more competativness to the list, i assume?
They're mainly there for the core choice actually. I'm only allowed the single nurgling unit and there is no use for a second plaguebearer unit, so furies it is. The final decider though was when I saw the FW winged ripper models. I immediately knew that they'd make awesome nurgle furies!
the giant..Is its head a squig?
Yep, one of the old ones.
any chance of a battle rep ?
I've not used the list since easter so I can't write a rep of any games I've played so far. With a bit of luck I might get one game in with it before the tourney and if I do I'll write a rep. Otherwise I'll try to write a tourney report in a fortnight's time.
Ash010110 wrote: I completely agree with Ant (Reynolds, I presume?).
(Please note, I am NOT Anthony Reynolds)
Yep, one of the old ones.
I still remeber most of the old models and when i saw that giant and the trolls i was like OMG what amazingly simple, yet brilliant, conversions/substitutes
Otherwise I'll try to write a tourney report in a fortnight's time
Soundz good, ill be looking forward to it
The Plague of Nurgle Is Here Resistance Is Futile
- Venkh
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1975
- Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:39 pm
- Location: Returned from the East
I love the way you are using the trolls with the characters to overcome stupidity. I suspect that this might become more common after the tourney
Your central deployment is also going to look like the pestilent rune of the grandpappy. A large fly body flanked by the two smaller "wing units"
Your opponents are going to use cheap units to try and force your main thrust off centre by receiving your charge at an angle and forcing you to align (its what i would do)
Great list, great army, splendid chap!
Your central deployment is also going to look like the pestilent rune of the grandpappy. A large fly body flanked by the two smaller "wing units"
Your opponents are going to use cheap units to try and force your main thrust off centre by receiving your charge at an angle and forcing you to align (its what i would do)
Great list, great army, splendid chap!
Your opponents are going to use cheap units to try and force your main thrust off centre by receiving your charge at an angle and forcing you to align (its what i would do)
Yep, they are, but there are a surprisingly large number of tricks to get around this. I've had quite a lot of practice at delivering the army in these types of situations and I'm not too worried about it really. With 3 units it is hard to angle the bait unit in such a way that the overrun from every unit is to your advantage not mine. Then there are the chariots and characters which can be used to clear the way. And that's all assumming the bait passes the fear tests too!
You also have to remember that, unless you are using chariots, it doesn't matter to me one bit who charges who, my units will still perform at the same effectiveness since you are unlikely to kill a troll without a character and you certainly ain't gonna kill the GUO in one round of combat!
And of course, even if it works, you still need stuff to take on my combat units to get enough points for a win.
So basically, these tactics, whilst annoying, are unlikely to win the game for you without a more in depth strategy. That said, this is intentionally not the hardest army in the world. It is an army written to complement a painting and modelling project. So it does have a couple of large exploitable weaknesses. But then that just adds to the challenge doesn't it?!
Ash010110 wrote: I completely agree with Ant (Reynolds, I presume?).
(Please note, I am NOT Anthony Reynolds)
- Prince of arnheim
- Renegade Reaver
- Posts: 1612
- Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:21 pm
- Location: Regina,Saskatchewan,Canada
- Beastmaster kurlan
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1467
- Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:34 pm
- Location: Portsmouth, England
Ant i absolutely love the list. I think it is balanced and should do well vs all comers. Oh and the army looks awesome in the pictures, it all blends in together.
i cant seem to make friends! add me to msn you losers!
Kurlan the violent (trainee of khaine)
WS: 3
S:5
T:4
D:5
I:2
two short swords, dagger, 4 throwing knives, 500 gold coins, unarmed combat skill
Group 17 Mod
Kurlan the violent (trainee of khaine)
WS: 3
S:5
T:4
D:5
I:2
two short swords, dagger, 4 throwing knives, 500 gold coins, unarmed combat skill
Group 17 Mod
-
- Morathi's Favoured
- Posts: 9741
- Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
- Location: In the paintshop
@Ches: yeah, it's the same weekend as Pompey. I decided to go to this instead because what with my exams I missed the deadline for Pompey.
Here's a link
http://www.spikyclub.org/
Just click on events and there's a rulespack and email address. If you're quick you should be able to get a place. It'd be good if you could come, you'll save me a bit on petrol (I'm going home for a long weekend so I'll be driving from Kent).
Here's a link
http://www.spikyclub.org/
Just click on events and there's a rulespack and email address. If you're quick you should be able to get a place. It'd be good if you could come, you'll save me a bit on petrol (I'm going home for a long weekend so I'll be driving from Kent).
Ash010110 wrote: I completely agree with Ant (Reynolds, I presume?).
(Please note, I am NOT Anthony Reynolds)
- Chesney
- Black Guard
- Posts: 254
- Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:46 pm
- Location: Drunk......and barely unconscious
Well if its that weekend then I can't make it (its mums 60th birthday party). However if you speak to Rabbit, he is up for a tourney as I mentioned to Gary. So you might be able to get him to go with you.
Are you staying in a hotel or coming back Saturday night? If your coming back each day I might join you for the Saturday (just to watch and maybe get a spare game) as Mum's party is Sunday.
Also Ant, when are you back as we are going to be starting a Mighty Empires campaign in July at the club. It would be good if you could join in.
Cheers
Ches
Are you staying in a hotel or coming back Saturday night? If your coming back each day I might join you for the Saturday (just to watch and maybe get a spare game) as Mum's party is Sunday.
Also Ant, when are you back as we are going to be starting a Mighty Empires campaign in July at the club. It would be good if you could join in.
Cheers
Ches
Refusing to desert the Ogre Kingdoms since 2004!
OK, I'll give Rabbit a ring later today. I'll be coming back on the Saturday night (it's cheaper than a hotel) so if you feel like tagging along on the Saturday you're quite welcome.
I'm not sure when (or even if) I'll be back in Kent for good. I'll definitely be staying up in Notts until Graduation which is the 12th of July. I'llbe going back at least once or twice before then though, so I could time those trips around Tuesdays I suppose. After that I dunno. It'll probably be easier to get a temp job up here than in Kent so I may well stay up here.
I'm not sure when (or even if) I'll be back in Kent for good. I'll definitely be staying up in Notts until Graduation which is the 12th of July. I'llbe going back at least once or twice before then though, so I could time those trips around Tuesdays I suppose. After that I dunno. It'll probably be easier to get a temp job up here than in Kent so I may well stay up here.
Ash010110 wrote: I completely agree with Ant (Reynolds, I presume?).
(Please note, I am NOT Anthony Reynolds)
- Xerasi
- Highborn
- Posts: 716
- Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 3:45 pm
- Location: Kgs Lyngby - Denmark => Sunny CA
I really like your list and idea Ant, but it almost seems too good to be true (as mentioned it would probably make a new standard setup after you've spread the idea a bit)...
Having looked it up, I'm afraid that it doesn't work. On p. 78 of BRB it says: "If a unit is affected by Stupidity, any chars with the unit and... that do not suffer from being stupid themselves must move as the unit moves."
So you can use the LD of your chars, but the rerolling ability would only be allowed if they suffered from stupidity (as far as I can see that is)...
Do tell if there is another ruling that I should read (that points out my mistake if any)
Xerasi
Having looked it up, I'm afraid that it doesn't work. On p. 78 of BRB it says: "If a unit is affected by Stupidity, any chars with the unit and... that do not suffer from being stupid themselves must move as the unit moves."
So you can use the LD of your chars, but the rerolling ability would only be allowed if they suffered from stupidity (as far as I can see that is)...
Do tell if there is another ruling that I should read (that points out my mistake if any)
Xerasi
DoW 2/2.25k W-L-D: 22 - 4 - 3
-
- Morathi's Favoured
- Posts: 9741
- Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2002 1:29 pm
- Location: In the paintshop
@Xerasi: I don't see how that quote supports not being able to use the reroll. As far as I can see it just says that the character must move with the unit if they fail the test. Anyway, I'll explain the reasoning. The Ld rules say I must use the higest Ld value availible in the unit (the character). The MoU rules say I can reroll any failed test on the character's leadership. So, as long as the undivided character has the highest Ld value in the unit I get the reroll (I'd lose it if a Tzeentch lord joined the trolls for example). There was a 6th ed FAQ that said the character can't pass the reroll on but of course 6th ed faqs aren't used now. So it is essentially the same situation as black orc bsbs being allowed to use the armed to the teeth rule.
I do agree that it is unclear though so I'll ask the tourney organisers before my first game starts which way they want me to play it. It doesn't bother me really, ld8 (9 if near the general) is still good.
@DA: Unfortunately this army is back in Kent. I'll be up for a game or 2 with my orcs and/or TKs though if you fancy it.
I do agree that it is unclear though so I'll ask the tourney organisers before my first game starts which way they want me to play it. It doesn't bother me really, ld8 (9 if near the general) is still good.
@DA: Unfortunately this army is back in Kent. I'll be up for a game or 2 with my orcs and/or TKs though if you fancy it.
Ash010110 wrote: I completely agree with Ant (Reynolds, I presume?).
(Please note, I am NOT Anthony Reynolds)
Ant, the Problem is the Character is the only one that has the mark, and dispite the fact that he's in the unit, he is not taking the stupidity test, the trolls are, they are just using his leadership, as if he were the general within 12"
Fr0 wrote: The evil Dr. Henry McCoy as usual, has a firm grasp on the rule.
Ant wrote:But the unit is taking the test on his Ld. And you are allowed to reroll tests on his leadership.
no, all units/characters with the mark are allowed to reroll their tests, there is a signifigent difference, by your interpretation an undivided general would pass his rerolls to all units within 12 inches of him
the rules for Chaos Undivided read that units, characters and Chariots with the mark get to reroll failed tests, the character is not the one taking the test, and as such there is no reroll allowed
- D'jihurccen
- Executioner
- Posts: 167
- Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:20 am
I agree with ant, i understand what you are saying about the Unidivided general thing, but its different when the character is actually in the unit, so its really as if he is making a ld test to see if he can convince the trolls to not be stupid, rather then the trolls taking a test to see if they remember which direction the enemies are in.
The being said, It is a good idea to talk to the tourney people beforehand, just so that you don't end up looking like a cheater if the rule against you during a game... (never fun)
The being said, It is a good idea to talk to the tourney people beforehand, just so that you don't end up looking like a cheater if the rule against you during a game... (never fun)
Dark moon Host (druchii) w/d/l 9/2/4
D'jihurccen wrote:so its really as if he is making a ld test to see if he can convince the trolls to not be stupid, rather then the trolls taking a test to see if they remember which direction the enemies are in.
Heh, let's not make up rules here...
Bad Beast is 100% correct - Trolls are the ones testing for Stupidity and since they don't have MoU, they don't get to reroll. The same would be true if character with MoSlaanesh is with them - he wouldn't make them ItP.
Ant, I'm no expert here, but as far as I can interpret the rules for both instances, you can't reroll Stupidity. I think there was an FAQ that even said that GW does not plan to ever allow a reroll of Stupidity, but that's neither here nor there.
The reasoning behind my opinion is that the character does not suffer from Stupidity himself -- if you removed him from the unit, he would not have to test. However, if you were to put him in the unit as you wish to, he moves with the unit -- should it fail its test -- as if he also did; note that he does not 'gain' Stupidity.
Because he does not gain Stupidity, his item does not activate -- he never takes the test; the unit of Trolls does. They simply are doing it off of his Leadership, which is perfectly legal. Again, you are testing off of his Leadership -- he's an 'inspiration' to the Trolls -- but he is not taking the test, as he's not Stupid: the big dumb Trolls staring at him like run-over toads are.
The reasoning behind my opinion is that the character does not suffer from Stupidity himself -- if you removed him from the unit, he would not have to test. However, if you were to put him in the unit as you wish to, he moves with the unit -- should it fail its test -- as if he also did; note that he does not 'gain' Stupidity.
Because he does not gain Stupidity, his item does not activate -- he never takes the test; the unit of Trolls does. They simply are doing it off of his Leadership, which is perfectly legal. Again, you are testing off of his Leadership -- he's an 'inspiration' to the Trolls -- but he is not taking the test, as he's not Stupid: the big dumb Trolls staring at him like run-over toads are.
-
- Corsair
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 6:19 pm
Confused Counselor wrote:I agree with Bad Beast here, but I just wondered: if an undivided character with the helm of many eyes would join the unit (so, also stupid) they would get the reroll right?; As the character himself is now stupid.
personaly i play it as no (i play undivided beastmen, and my beast herds joined by the undivided Shaman does not allow the beast herd he's with a reroll where i play) just like a single model being ItP does not allow the whole unit to ignore Pychology