Unpainted Armies

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 5:16 pm

Today I have made a new rule for myself. I'm never going to play an unpainted army again.

I had a game versus a Demons of Chaos army. He has had this army for about 8 months now and has only painted about a third of it, though everything is still on matt black bases.

He had a unit of horrors including a herald, BSB and full command, which he said he mentioned but I don't remember. Needless to say the BSB was a horror holding a stick, the herald was partly painted so a mixture of dark blue and matt black, and the muso was holding a matt black instrument in its matt black hand against its matt black body.

The nurgles had a herald, who was a nurgle without a head, and a painted slanesh chic of some description.

The two beasts of nurgle were headless and armless trolls, and the chaos hounds were some kind of skink mount without riders.

The endless confusion on my part as to what was what, detracted greatly from both playing the game and also visual appeal of playing the game.

I have a certain amount of sympathy for people who don't have their army fully painted, but this is the army he has had for months without doing anything to it.

Feel free to tell me I'm being mean

Kajchi · Post by **Kajchi** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:11 pm

You're being mean!

Just kidding, you do have a point. I can understand unpainted armies (I should because I've just finished my first unit after more than a year...) But it seams that your opponent had a lot more than an unpainted army...

Creedence · Post by **Creedence** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:23 pm

His issue is not an army that is not painted but an army that is not even complete. They are using proxy partial models to represent something completely different.

I will admit play with and against an unpainted army in part at least because I cannot paint and don't get a lot of time to work on it. I d however assemble to models and use the correct models for what I am attempting to field. Playing against it is also not bad as you can still follow what it is.

The use of Proxy is the issue you are really having.

Garluch · Post by **Garluch** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:32 pm

The only time I played without a completely painted army was when I bought some Rxbs righ befor the start.
I think it "feels" best to not face unpainted armies, although some people just cant paint/ have no time to paint, then its ok for a while.

PS: Creedence, your name is awsome!

Akyro · Post by **Akyro** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:43 pm

I'm one of those players that buys more new models than paint them. I'm playing for about 2 years now, and all that I've finished is a 20 strong unit of spearmen, 14 rxb, 5 black steeds (no riders yet) and a general on horseback.

My reasons:
- I don't have as many free time as I would like :roll:

- I enjoy modeling a lot more than painting (All my models are based)
- I don't want to paint the specials and rares until I get better, but I find painting core troops boring.
- Nobody refuses to play me.

I guess my army would look just like the one you faced, so I'm not in a position to say much, but I think you have a point. Unpainted armies are annoying enough, but it really shouldn't hamper the game. Painting is only 1/3 of this hobby, and not everyone plays it for the same reason, but if people are only enjoying this hobby for the gaming aspects they should stick with cardboard tiles on a kitchen table.

So no, you're not mean.

Did you tell him how you felt about his army? If so, what was his response? Did he just ignore your comments?

Rabidnid · Post by **Rabidnid** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:07 pm

You right, the main issue was not know what was what. But an army on a mixture of figure in matt black on a mixture of square and round bases inj a unpanted movement tray really dosen't do much for me.

I have a GF and work full time, so I understand that there are limits, but I've found that an average paint job and good bases make for a very enjoyable army. My armies alays get a comment at tournaments because of the good conversions and colour choices and basing, even though the painting is very average.

The griefbringer · Post by **The griefbringer** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:07 pm

I do my best to not play with an unpainted army myself, but I don't have too much of a problem facing unpainted armies. Though I certainly prefer painted, I'd rather some game than none at all.

One thing I'm terrible at doing is basing my models. I just hate doing it and, frankly, don't see the point. Yes, my army looks marginally better, so long as the base matches the table. If it doesn't, well, it looks just as bad as a black base.

I only base models the night before a tournament, if then. The only reason I do that is because I lost a 'best painted' award once only because I hadn't based anything.

Mordru · Post by **Mordru** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:10 am

It is one thing to pop into your local store and play against an unpainted army it is quite another to travel to a tournament at considerable expense in funds and time and play an unpainted army. I dislike unpainted armies at tournaments it seems disrespectful to your fellow hobbyists.

Dark apostle197 · Post by **Dark apostle197** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:08 am

Lately, I've been playing with an unpainted army and proxying some too. I made the mistake of making a vow not buy anything until I get everything painted, but with school, then the load of homework after school the hour or two I actually get to myself I'd rather do something else.

I've never had any problems with proxying, base size is always the same as the actually unit. Usually the same type of model so it comes close. I always make everything clear ahead of time and play the same army every time and never had complaints. I get the "Oh, your dice rolls suck because you're proxying or unpainted" but they don't realize my dice rolls also sucked with my fully painted un proxied wood elf army

Guess it really depends. Painted armies do look spectacular on the field (Usually, I've seen some around here that should of played unpainted because paint was just splashed on them to be painted).

Whenever someone asks me for a game, I always ask them if they mind proxies. Haven't met someone who said no, but at least they're prepared. Asking probably would have solved the problem with your opponent.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:31 am

Haven't met someone who said no

No one said they don't mind proxies? How do you ever get to play with proxies then???

I don't like playing against fully unpainted armies (often that implies that the owner is not really into the hobby/bought the army just because they had found yet another way of making an unbeatable chaos army but couldn't be bothered painting the newly bought army up). The game already requires some imagination (the figures aren't actually fighting, after all. But if you don't even see colourful models on the table...). If you don't have the time to paint, fair enough. Your friends will know and not mind, most likely. But if you just can't be bothered, then you're in the wrong hobby. The only thing worse than playing against a hyped-up proxied army is playing against pieces of paper, seriously.

It just makes up for a much nicer game if you play on nice terrain with fully painted and based armies. I get a headache from games that are played in black, silver, white and grey... like two armies consisting largely of papter and/or unpainted minis on a golf/pool table with pieces of paper on it that say "forest" or "ruin" or "hills". my brother and I played like that when we moved to Oz and my army took two months to be shipped down... But I hated it and still do.

HUZZAH!

Post by **Calisson** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:36 am

I play only family games with my son (and some of their friends).
I accept to play against proxy models (even made of Lego!)... once. If satisfactory, the model must be bought. Example: dwarve's anvil.
I accept to play against models just glued... once.
I accept to play against models with just the base... once.
I accept to play with models painted with at least four colours (including the base), with no limitations.
When playing, I take pictures only of painted models.

There it allows to "try" new units without having to pay for them and risk realizong that they are crap with one's own playing style.
It provides ample time to paint models.
It allows to play with the brand new marvel.
It incites to start painting.
With 4 colours, an army is already looking all right, from a distance.
After having received 4 colours, any model is begging for more.

Dubhgilla · Post by **Dubhgilla** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:41 am

I played a guy who used the large square bases as Peg Knights.

He of courseout flanked me with the invisible figures and won the game!

NEVER AGAIN! :evil:

Undead bonzi · Post by **Undead bonzi** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:07 am

I find hate threads against unpainted models kind of silly and useless. It's a hobby and nobody is holding a gun to your head. If you don't want to play against an unpainted army, don't...the end.

Personally my own ethic is that I would not field an upainted army in a tourney or against strangers. With my friends we have agreements that we all have lives and waiting the year it takes to paint up an army before playing it is pretty damn stupid. We also allow proxies and play testing because we would rather play a unit or combination to see how it feels before we spend precious money on models. However, the proxies must be unified and consistent in use. Typically our proxies are models from other armies such as 5 dwarf quarrellers standing in a daemons army for 5 furies while 10 Ironbreakers might stand in for a unit of bloodletters ect ect. We don't have any trouble remembering what model does what if they have distinct seperation.

Thanatoz · Post by **Thanatoz** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:01 am

I can agree to that. And I too am guilty of not playing with a fully painted army. But yeah, the hateful thing is not everybody thinks the same way. If for example I just bought a new box of warriors, assembled them as crossbowmen, and then wanted to field 20 rxb warriors, I'd have 4 models short. If I have some warrior spearelves laying about, I'd just add them to the unit, saying yeah, GW sells em in boxes of 16. To some people this is EXACTLY the same as putting up 3 or 4 bases (often not even the right base size) with no model whatsoever, and often these are flyers (or monsters), and then suddenly you get charged because you didn't notice they were there, like dubhgilla with the Pegasus knights. It also happened to me, and can cost games. I would never proxy an entire unit, unless for testing against a friend, and then I would use models (not bases) which can't be confused with anything else.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:07 am

No one said they "hate" playing against unpainted models, really. But there is a general consensus that playing with a painted army (and showing off your panting skills) is much more fun than playing with unpainted armies. There is also no problem with proxying a single unit or two, or a character or whatever to see how it works. So this really is not a hate thread... In fact, if it turns into a hate thread the mods will lock and/or delete it and dish out warnings... so until then it's not classified as a hate thread

HUZZAH!

Aspiring executioner · Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:32 am

I'm perfectly fine with unpainted models and so are my opponents but proxying is another story, in fact our GW store has a policy of no proxying models and must be fully assembled unless they have only just broken when you take them out of your case or while playing your game. The Staff are also not allowed to use their models unless they are fully painted.

In tourneys I feel kinda obliged to have my models painted for my opponents and felt really bad when I couldn't finish some stuff off for my last tourney especially since my score would've been much higher.

But saying that I cringe when I see 10 year old kids paint their models multi-coloured blobs or 14-18 year olds do really sloppy jobs and say it's tabletop quality and talk up their army and stuff and have really out there conversions that don't look anything like what they are meant to represent.

Well I think that's the closest thing I've done to a rant on these forums...

Crawd · Post by **Crawd** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 12:48 pm

Free time aren't given to everyone, I have a tournament coming and I still have 11 models to paint but my lack of free time is starting to make me worry.

For friendly games, you can't force your opponent to play with 100% painted models, because you don't know how much free time the other one has. In a tournament, it's not your decision, it's the job of the organisators to do the dicision and if there's points for compisition and painting, you can hurt them there.

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:21 pm

I am the only person around here who has done any significant painting on their army (I have very, very little unpainted in my 40K Sisters force). I would like to see the others painted, and Space Marines all look the same (which has caused me trouble in the past), but I know there are reasons for different people: one cannot stop modelling, another does not have the time, etc. I have never fielded more than a few unpainted models in an army, and only when I cannot help it. I am still working on my Dark Elves, and plan to have them at least mostly painted before I start playing.

Thanquol26 · Post by **Thanquol26** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:26 pm

My worst xp was a guy who only brought paper sheets with squares drawn upon them. He just designed a new army, and didn't have any models yet. casualties got crossed off off the sheet.
Never ever gonna play that way

Elric of grans · Post by **Elric of grans** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 7:56 pm

thanquol26 wrote:My worst xp was a guy who only brought paper sheets with squares drawn upon them.

Slanderbot · Post by **Slanderbot** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:08 pm

Hell, I'd play vs that army of fuzz any day! That's friggin awesome.

Ebonyphoenix · Post by **Ebonyphoenix** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:12 pm

Totally, and it looks like he would only have to tell you once what unit is what before you go for the kill.
I wonder if that was done by choice or as a result of a lost bet...

Slortor · Post by **Slortor** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:32 pm

Aspiring Executioner wrote:But saying that I cringe when I see 10 year old kids paint their models multi-coloured blobs or 14-18 year olds do really sloppy jobs and say it's tabletop quality and talk up their army and stuff and have really out there conversions that don't look anything like what they are meant to represent.

drat - rumbled!!!

personally i'm in this hobby because i love the game - so yeah, as long as my opponents are ok with it then i have proxied (to an extent im occasionally ashamed of). I also paint my army to 'tabletop quality' then never touch them with a paintbrush again

and yes i am in AE's age bracket

I think my paitings getting better though

i can actually highlight now, only took *checks watch* 6 years - thats not too bad... :?:

I tend to be fairly relaxed about my opponents doing it as well - as long as i know what everything is supposed to be and my opponent is willing to answer me when i ask the same question every turn then thats fine. Same with painting - its nice, but not vital. Takes me ages to paint things so i have some sympathy for others...

So be nice to us teenagers who play the game for the games sake - we're not all bad :lol:

Belial · Post by **Belial** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:33 pm

I haven't painted my armies yet... My Goblins are the ones that have most painted models... 40, I think. I don't have the time, but I do make a point of not using proxies.

But I only play friends anyway. I don't have time for hanging around stores, I need to plan a game some time in advance...

Back in the days when I started, my Space Marines and My Vampire Counts were almost completely painted. Back then, I played in stores too. I don't have these armies anymore. Ah, to be a kid again, with all the time in the world...