Does Lore of Fire have a use?

[Camaris]

IMO one of the most game changing rules brought about by 8th edition is steadfast. I think that for this reason alone, fire is worth it just because the majority of its spells help to take ranks off your typical T3/T4 5+ save unit that is trying to take advantage of steadfast.

I believe that the main reason fire lacks popularity isn't necessarily due to lack of effectiveness, but because fire was probably one of the few viable rulebook lores at the end of 7th. Now all the rulebook lores are pretty much viable meaning that most of us old gamers wish to try something new. However, I suspect that once the novelty of the new magic system has worn off, some gamers will start giving their mages fireballs again.

[Mazrim taim]

I would use Lore of Fire on lower level wizards, and here's why:
The spells, as has already been pointed out, have low casting values.
The signture spell has three different casting levels, starting at 5+ making it useful for any level wizard.
The fluff seems to support fire as the lore for magic novices. (At least that's the impression i got.)

[Flash29]

i believe lore of fire is a low point lore, 500 to a 1000 points battles you will only take 1 lvl 1 and your opponent will have very little troops as well.
if you combine this with our shooting you can eradicate most armies and fire is perfect for any beasties, if you roll the flaming sword of ruin, FUN. if not change to signature spell and see to it that that 3d6 st4 fireball completely destroys your opponents expencive block with character, and mop up in the shooting fase.

[Tethlis]

I'm surprised that a forum hosting expensive, T3, poorly armored troops isn't more afraid of S4 hits. If someone told me they were laying a S4 blast template over my Black Guard, I'd be very concerned. Depending on the unit formation, I'm taking more damage from that S4 template than I am from either Purple Sun or Dwellers. Similarly, my Hydra isn't going to mind either of those spells at all, but if he's getting smacked with 3D6 S4 Flaming hits, that could be a problem.

[Meteor]

True Tethlis, but we're talking about using it on other opponents, not being used against us.

I wouldn't take it as a main all rounder lore

[Masked jackal]

My problem with the Lore of Fire is just that it isn't very useful for us. The targets it's best against are stuff that we really don't have a problem with, while it solves none of our weaknesses. Sort of redundant to inflict a little more S4 on our enemy when we need something more fitting to our army.

[Tethlis]

True Tethlis, but we're talking about using it on other opponents, not being used against us.

I wouldn't take it as a main all rounder lore

Or High Elves. Or Wood Elves. Or other Dark Elves (we're not exactly an unpopular or rare army )

[Dalamar]

But Chaos, Dwarves, Ogres, Lizarmen, Vampires will largely chuckle at the magic cast at them...

Fire is very situational... 8th edition rules don't give you much leeway with your lore choice.

If you *know for sure* you will play against elves, infantry based empire, or skaven... then go ahead and take Fire.

[Strollinthewoods]

I am going for 3 lvl 1 fire mages. Remember me when it becomes the cheese

I think lvl 1s with good spells are underrated.. becouse they used to be so crappy in earlier editions.

you get more chanses of channeling more powerdice, and more dispelldice.
you get 3x the dark elf basic spell, and you get 3x the fireball spell that can be cast at a suitable casting lvl.

You are more resistant to casting low and ending the magic phase, since you have more casters.

You are more resistant to misscast, agains becouse there are more casters.

Less eggs in one basket.

You have a potensial of 9d6 str 4 each magic phase, and you can easily add the firey ring of ruin to boost that more if you so please.

The casting gets easier, as you get sucsessfull casts through.


My reapers are gone.. .. the sisters has awaken from their sleep.


I will playtest as soon as possible.

[Meteor]

That's a lot of easy 100VPs for your opponent to pick up. You aren't going to be effective with JUST fireball. I'd rather RBTs that are sure to shoot than fireball mages that needs your opponent to say "yes" before you can fling it. You aren't going to have many other support characters either if you spend it all on Lv1 fireball mages.

Remember it's only ever an extra +D3 to your cast value, doesn't stack.

[Tethlis]

But Chaos, Dwarves, Ogres, Lizarmen, Vampires will largely chuckle at the magic cast at them...

Fire is very situational... 8th edition rules don't give you much leeway with your lore choice.

If you *know for sure* you will play against elves, infantry based empire, or skaven... then go ahead and take Fire.

Oh, I don't know about that. Fire can but a significant dent in marauder hordes, more so than Purple Sun or Pit of Shades can with their Initiative 4, and is great for taking out hounds or marauder cavalry. A S4 hit also has a similar chance of dropping a Warrior/Chosen as Pit, Sun or Dwellers does, so it's not THAT bad.

Similarly, rolling a 4+ to wound a Dwarf with a S4 fire spell isn't that different from rolling for Dwellers. Sure, you're not bombing their low Initiative, but unless you're gunning for an Irrestistible Purple Sun or Pit of Shades, you're still doing comparable damage to Final Transmutation or Dwellers (in many cases, better damage.)

For Lizardmen, it's true that you're not dropping the Initiative bomb, but S4 can blow up skink skirmishers, terradons and salamanders with ease, and will still do good damage to Saurus blocks, especially when compared to Final Transmutation or Dwellers.

Ogres and Vampires really don't like Fire magic... T4 or less, with virtually no armor and a dependence on Regeneration to survive, with an abundance of horde-esque infantry regiments with plenty of lone monsters and infantry elements? I would even go so far as to say that fire is GREAT against these guys.

Okay, so I'm mostly playing Devil's Advocate here, but I do think the point stands that Fire isn't bad as a take-all-comers lore. A S4 hit is much stronger than lots of players give it credit for.

[Dalamar]

Fire can but a significant dent in marauder hordes, more so than Purple Sun or Pit of Shades can with their Initiative 4, and is great for taking out hounds or marauder cavalry.

All of which we already have very good weapons to deal with... they're called crossbowmen.

Or you can wound them on 4+ with no armor save with metal magic... or reduce their T and kill them easily with crossbows with Shadow magic...

Again, you're listing fire as good at dealing with stuff that we have no problems dealing with. Magic is versatile enough that it can fill niches in which an army is ill equipped to fight. Like High T, High AS troops in our case. High T, High AS troops laugh at Fireballs. Not so much at having their stats reduced to nothing or having their weaker stats attacked (like I instead of T)

[Tethlis]

That assumes, of course, that you're loading yourself up on crossbowmen. If you're letting your magic deal with hordes, then you can skimp on crossbowmen and spend those points on other units. Besides, my crossbowmen (personally) seem largely incapable of killing anything. Even 40 crossbow shots, rolling on average, kills about 7 marauders (out of the hundred or so I usually see Warriors of Chaos fielding these days) and it also means you're neglecting the other threats worth softening up with shooting.

You can never have too many shots, and given how prevalent hordes and multiple regiments are these days, I wouldn't say that repeater crossbows are our go-to option for dealing with them.

I think the primary consideration when selecting a Lore is how best to cover your weaknesses and accent your strengths. Sure, we all know how good Shadows and Death are, as well as Life for those who can take it. However, if you need to deal with T3 models, or huge hordes, or anything without much armor, fire isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

[Meteor]

Main issue is 5/7 of its spells are direct damage or magic missiles, requiring forward arc and making them useless when CC commences. So unless you're fielding a fairly static army, it's not going to be as useful.

The only useful anti horde spell is flame cage. When you're rolling xD6 worth of hits, it's not going to be enough to dent said horde units. Fire is actually a very good anti skirmish lore, because those are the only small units that you can deal significant damage to and cripple in one casting. Hordes and T4 onwards will just swallow those xD6 attacks up. The other problem is its lack of synergy, compared to shadow that has a big synergy with its signature spell, and death that has a synergy with the -1 S&T spell.

Fire's synergy isn't in damage output but in its lore attribute, which is kind of ok, but not that fancy. It'd be more justifiable to take lore of fire is its lore attribute bonus stacks so that it's worth it building up to the big 3D6 fireball or flame storm so there'd actually be some form of synergy with damage output like it's suppose to.