its getting worse and worse....

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what do you think of the gw ranking?

gw rankin is fair and without cheating
13
36%
no, its not!!!
23
64%
 
Total votes: 36

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Mr. anderson
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its getting worse and worse....

Post by Mr. anderson »

in the 3rd update, no evil force came better that 6th, the good forces of course took all good rankings
is this just a random phenomena or something else???
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Post by Casual malevolence »

I'm also sure there's a fair amount of incorrectly reported games, from people who create multiple fictional players, just to get a player code, then enter a bunch of fake battles against them. This wouldn't have to be GW's doing, just dishonest players (there was a row at my local GW store over this very issue).

So if you assume the same number of cheaters in each race, and more people in general play "good" races, then they're going to have more artificial wins. Now I'm not saying this accounts for all of the rankings, not even close, but the red shirt here about had a fit over it, so it must be affecting things somewhat.

Another interesting question is: if I'm reading the GW website correctly, DE actually came in first in North America one week, but have consistently performed poorly everywhere else. Why the concentration of DE wins here in the New World?
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Post by Bonemagus »

Well I can say there are at least 3 Dark Elf Players in the top 10 in the US right now that almost certainly cheating that haven't been deleted yet. (perhaps somehow they were not considered in the results?)

I don't know why you would assume that cheaters would be equal among all factions by any means... Also I don't agree with your idea that good armies are played more often than evil armies. From my experience that simply isn't the case in fact attending 4-5 tournaments a year in Minnesota/Wisconsin in the U.S. I would say the opposite is easily the norm (i.e. many more evil armies than good overall).

One thing though is that good armies on the average are played by older players more frequently. Which may reflect the sagging of the Druchii a tad a few weeks in not to mention the possibility we have more cheaters than many of the "good" armies.
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Post by Darkspear »

We must also not forget that the good (as in nice guys) factions are teaming up and beating the crap out of us. Looking at the way fluff is written I am very sure that the bret players r avoiding fighting other gd factions and focusing their energies beating tk, de and other dudes with a bad attitude.

Quite a pity in my opinion as the pre-campaign fluff states that Brettonia is eyeing Empire lands...why dun the bret players respond and invade Empire for once!!!
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Post by Morvai »

Also, the “good” guys have the easily abusive lists. The empire and dwarven gunline. And the Bret RAF (not to mention that they are broken anyway, rant, rant , rant).
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Post by Slerac fellblade »

Bonemagus wrote:Well I can say there are at least 3 Dark Elf Players in the top 10 in the US right now that almost certainly cheating that haven't been deleted yet. (perhaps somehow they were not considered in the results?)

I don't know why you would assume that cheaters would be equal among all factions by any means... Also I don't agree with your idea that good armies are played more often than evil armies. From my experience that simply isn't the case in fact attending 4-5 tournaments a year in Minnesota/Wisconsin in the U.S. I would say the opposite is easily the norm (i.e. many more evil armies than good overall).

One thing though is that good armies on the average are played by older players more frequently. Which may reflect the sagging of the Druchii a tad a few weeks in not to mention the possibility we have more cheaters than many of the "good" armies.


What people bring to tournaments and people play for fun arn't always the same. I know people who bring Chaos to tournaments because the army consistently wins while when playing a friendly game play empire or high elves. I think theres something else we are not seeing like say a one in every 10,000 games that is counted as a higher value which is aside from the 5-6 mega battles.

I think aside from that GW wants certain things to happen in this campaign. Because if Dark Elves were on top all campaign we would gt the crown wouldn't we considering we are fighting in the very area where it is. The three races designed to get the crown are Empire, Greenskins and Dwarves. If those two arn't near the top how do you explain away one of them getting the crown?
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Post by Bonemagus »

What do you have to base that on? Just because you think that GW can somehow make more money if certain armies win the campaign doesn't make that true. I mean how many new players do you know that researched the Storm of Chaos or the Dark Shadows campaign before deciding on their army?

How many players do you know that are buying more Dwarf models because the Dwarves are kicking butt?

On top of that even if they could sell more models with certain armies winning the campaign. That still doesn't mean they would toss the results out and put their own into the website... I mean just think of the outrage if some GW staffers leaked that they were actually cheating. GW would take a huge hit and for what? A unproven and almost laughable theory about how if certain armies win the campaign they are going to sell more models?

If you consider the facts the circumstances and possible outcomes, I can't help but laugh out loud at thought GW would cheat the results...

On the fluff its very easy to write fluff for someone else winning the campaign. They could win the campaign by meeting their goals and gaining items and power in the process. They don't need to get the crown in order to meet their goals like the Dwarves, Orcs, and Empire.
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Post by Venkh »

What they should do for next time is have the "official" results from stores, events and (perhaps) the GCN count towards the main objective. The other games could count towards a secondary objective for each race.

I have to say that i am not remotely excited about this campaign, its a bit of a non event as far as the DE are concerned.

I dont think that GW are trying to skew results either, they are just removing the cheaters. Perhaps there are more dark elf cheats because they have a hard time winning. Some vigilate types may want to even the score (very sad indeed)
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Post by Zibion »

I also noticed, that the DE results from week 1 have changed - the last time I looked the DE were 5th or something like that in the 1st week, now it says that they were 11th. What is going on? Has GW updated the results after removing cheaters?
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Post by Eldacar »

I also noticed, that the DE results from week 1 have changed - the last time I looked the DE were 5th or something like that in the 1st week, now it says that they were 11th. What is going on? Has GW updated the results after removing cheaters?

Andy said that there had been a miscalculation in the first week of results, and that it was being corrected.
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Post by Raziel02 »

I personally have got very bored with this campaign, i have been playing as lizardmen, and i think the narritive of the campaign is dire. I cant belive that the report is just a summary of all the races at once, they cant even do a proper dedicated report for the races. Medusa V was bad, this is terrible.
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Post by Venkh »

I got fed up with their campaigns after SOC.

The DE won 49.4% of their games in Lustria and the outcome and the end fluff was something like.

"Uh you guys, who are you again? Oh yeah, you diddnt really do anything and went home. The slann barely noticed that you were there. The End."

I could have written something more interesting over my breakfast.

The campaigns are really there to give the shops something to talk about during the slow season.
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Post by Fingol23 »

@Raziel02
To be fair it is only Andy doing the reports and he can only do faction specific ones every other week.

I don't think GW is rigging the campaign it is just that their are lots of cheaters who are tyipically using baddy accounts paticularly orcs as punch bags
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Post by Dyvim tvar »

Eldacar wrote:
I also noticed, that the DE results from week 1 have changed - the last time I looked the DE were 5th or something like that in the 1st week, now it says that they were 11th. What is going on? Has GW updated the results after removing cheaters?

Andy said that there had been a miscalculation in the first week of results, and that it was being corrected.


I believe the issue is that there were some cheaters who later got booted and that required them to go back and calculate week 1.

If that is the case, then it is disappointing -- the downward correction would indicate that there was some serious Dark Elf cheating.
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Post by Kaihlik »

Andy Hoare posted on warseer that it was Human error. Someone had done something and the score that was calculated was incorrect. We were always meant to be 11th.
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Post by Bloodyangel »

Sad to say... I gave up on this campaign before it began. It's clearly just a game of them showing off the new armies that came out. Most of us didn't even get a worth-while goal.

"The Dark Elves are using the chaos to increase raids..." Wooo... So we're doing the same thing in this campaign that we do every day of our lives...

I know it's our thing, but come on! We should have some goals aside from "raid for slaves" and "plot against high elves". Why couldn't our goal have been to provoke a war between the other races... like we did to the high elves and dwarves so long ago. Or to capture a large and permanent new stronghold somewhere. Or... something! Our part in the campaign pretty much just amounts to "Oh... and you guys are here too."

Plus now we're getting beat silly in the scoring for some reason. There's a reason so many people make gay jokes about elves... Because we keep getting given the shaft.
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Post by Artein »

I was looking entusiastic on this campaign but since it's boring, they're changing results after a few games I've played I said them:
F**K off with a campaign like this!
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Post by Casual malevolence »

Most of us didn't even get a worth-while goal.


It could be worse. The Wood Elf motivation is, "Protect the forest. Destroy anything which threatens the forest." They haven't had a different movtivation for anything they've ever done...ever. (hyperbole. I know they've been given other goals in the past, but those occasions are few and forgetable).

We must also not forget that the good (as in nice guys) factions are teaming up and beating the crap out of us


This is also very true. There's a new post on the Bretonnian forum right now from some dude representing the Empire contingent, just GUSHING thanks for all the help the Brets have given them, and how great the world is going to be once they purge it all of evil, and how they're going to cooperate for the "greater good" from now on forever and ever amen. There's a word for this...but it might offend some people, so I won't say it :x
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Post by Fvc »

Oh yes, because God forbid that the forces of light should actually work together and coordinate their efforts...

There's nothing wrong with Empire and Bretonnian players working together - or dwarf and ogre, or High Elf and lizardmen, or anything of that nature, provided that the alliance in question is appropriate to the background. I'm with Bretonnia and we did spend a lot of time worrying about background.

So what's the problem? I hate to sound harsh, but it's not the forces of light's fault that they're doing better than you. Reverse the situation and you'd do the same, would you not?

Of course, that doesn't mean that the motivation GW gave the Dark Elves isn't pathetic. It is, and background-wise you've been shafted. You're not alone in that regard, however.
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Post by Casual malevolence »

I wasn't meaning it as an accusation that the "good guys" shouldn't work together...rather, we should do more to learn from their example. The Orcs came to us before this campaign began, and we pledged only half-hearted and coincidental support, and that only after much debate. If we truly wish to shine, we have to set aside our petty differences and forge an "axis of evil" of our own.

But incidentally, in the fluff, the Brets and Empire DO fight small-scale border wars with some frequency, so I think we should see some more of that.
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Post by Fvc »

Fair enough then. When it comes to background, though, the 'evil' factions have never been much good at cooperating - the goals of evil and self-interested beings clash with those of other evil and self-interested beings just as much as they do with more altruistic types.

Though there are some alliances you could have plausibly made... not with the orcs, I wouldn't think, but with others. The Cult of Slaanesh gives you a ready-made excuse to coordinate with Chaos. You could trade slaves with the skaven and work together (though in a paranoid, backstabbing way) to plunge the Empire into chaos. You could steal artifacts and blackmail the Tomb Kings into helping, or find common cause with the vampires. There were lots of options - though it may have decreased the good guys' chances, I would have liked to see some diplomacy and coordination going on among the forces of evil.

As for Bretonnia and the Empire fighting wars... yes, they do, but they haven't fought many recently. On the contrary, both nations were involved in a firm alliance during the Storm of Chaos. King Louen saved the Grand Theogonist! As Nemesis Crown is set only a few months after the end of the Storm, it would be very odd to see a sudden reversal in the relations between the two. Louen and Karl Franz respect each other and I can't see either condoning a war between the two nations, especially not with Louen being as honourable as he is. I think this is a time of rapprochement between the Empire and Bretonnia, forging closer ties between the two nations - and isn't that what the good guys should want?
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Post by Slerac fellblade »

Bonemagus wrote:What do you have to base that on? Just because you think that GW can somehow make more money if certain armies win the campaign doesn't make that true. I mean how many new players do you know that researched the Storm of Chaos or the Dark Shadows campaign before deciding on their army?

How many players do you know that are buying more Dwarf models because the Dwarves are kicking butt?

On top of that even if they could sell more models with certain armies winning the campaign. That still doesn't mean they would toss the results out and put their own into the website... I mean just think of the outrage if some GW staffers leaked that they were actually cheating. GW would take a huge hit and for what? A unproven and almost laughable theory about how if certain armies win the campaign they are going to sell more models?

If you consider the facts the circumstances and possible outcomes, I can't help but laugh out loud at thought GW would cheat the results...

On the fluff its very easy to write fluff for someone else winning the campaign. They could win the campaign by meeting their goals and gaining items and power in the process. They don't need to get the crown in order to meet their goals like the Dwarves, Orcs, and Empire.


Did you not read the fluff behind this campaign?

Dark elves are just taking advantage of chaos that hopefully a century or so down the road they will be presented with the opportunity to get the crown.

Empire, Dwarves and greenskins are actively looking for the crown.

Brettonians are on an expansion thing.

High Elves are there retake old sites like tor thana and maybe safeguard the relic if they can get it.

Wood Elves are out for Morghur

and I forget the rest. But considering How GW has ran worldwide campaigns in the past they tend to want results to mirror their storyline and vice versa. I never said it was a plan to sell more of a particular race I just said we had no real chance of getting the crown.
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Post by Bonemagus »

No you said that GW doesn't want Dark Elves to win so they don't get the crown. I simply stated that if the Dark Elves won they could do it without getting the crown.

Perhaps we had a misunderstanding of statements. But it seemed to me you said GW would stop the Dark Elves from winning so they couldn't get the crown. I think thats very unlikely and if the Dark Elves won while we wouldn't get the crown we would get other storylines.


As for everyone saying the fluff is weak on this. Well to some extent that is true but what exactly do you want them to do in a warhammer world that has remained static for a long time.

I mean you could argue the Warhammer world shouldn't be so static and they should have major campaigns that might rewrite the maps. But they aren't doing that and haven't as far as I am aware since Warhammer Started. (I have only played since 6th but even back to at least 4th the map seems to be the same.)

So I am not sure what kind of fluff you propose they write that wouldn't change the world in a large scale manner...

On the other hand if they decided to have a more "fluid" world. It would outdate army books fluff much faster and they would need to have more updates to keep armies abreast of the new changes in the map.

As it is these campaigns are "historical refights" we just don't know how they turned out. But to a large extent of thse things are supposed to have happened before the current warhammer army books from my understanding...
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Post by Mr. anderson »

well, imagine the chaos forces winning soc:
Middenheim destroyed, the empire destroyed, ulthuan in big trouble, bretonnia getting its bump kicked, dwarfes f****d...
but eventually the good forces won.
same thing with nemesis:
the good forces would never be able to conquer all land, even with the crown they would just be enjoying themselves defending their country. the evil forces (i.e. orks) would start to destroy everything with this crown and kick all opponents, imagine grimgork with this crown... or, better don´t do that !mad!

(i´m not sure about this, i just wanted to throw it in and have it discussed ;))
Last edited by Mr. anderson on Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Cathel »

Okay, so the outcome of the campaign must fit the fluff of their world.
Which means the persons participating can do their best or play like a four year old and it won't change a thing?
So they can stuff the campaign in the dustbin.
Let them hold one more tournament or make it a world wide tournament with a ranking.
If these are "historical refights" then why don't they tell us so? But that also makes no sense, because if one of the warhammer people got hold of the crown, it sure would be mentioned in the fluff, even if they lost it later on.
At least the dwarfs would have put it down somewhere, whether they got it or not.

I'm neither a tourney nor a campaign player, I'm in this for the fun. But even so I don't like the idea of giving my best just to be told: "Nice job, didn't do anything though."
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