Time reset in DE Army Book

Nekroskop · Post by **Nekroskop** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:40 am

Can anybody tell me why basically the most important events of the last few years have been left out in the new army book?

You know, small things like the the effing Storm of Chaos?

Not owning the Asur book, but did they do something similar there? Like erase the whole recent history of Eltharion, forgetting to mention Kourans Death, stuff like that?

I have to admit that I'm quite disappointed by that, even though the rest of the background reads nicely.

Aspiring executioner · Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:47 am

In the VC timeline the Storm of Chaos hasn't happened yet but is just about to. I think also in the HE book that Storm of Chaos isn't there. I guess GW want to rewrite the history of the Warhammer World.

Highborn on black dragon · Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:52 am

And i have a few questions too (don't want to open a million topics, so i'll post them here):

1. How is possible that Kouran is dead and still is appearing in the army list (and how exactly did he die)?

2. How, ffs, Eltharion is in the High Elves army list when, in the 6th ed DE book, Malekith's torturers saw "that his spirit is broken and his body becomes little more than an empty husk" 'n' stuff?

Nekroskop · Post by **Nekroskop** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:42 pm

1. This is normal - In the older AB's, they constantly had dead SC like Grom the Paunch and similar people. They are there for historic scenarios and what not. AFAIK, Kouran died either in the old Asur AB or in a White Dwarf.

2. Eltharion had quite a story, actually. He was caught, tortured and blinded in our AB, became a blind Swordmaster in the Asur AB, and finally became a SC with new rules together witth Sahdowblade via WD and Annuals.

He even had a confrontation with Malekith and managed to wound him, that's why Mal set Shadowblade on him.

He then led a second offensive into Naggaroth.

Actually, GW seems to retcon/ignore all of this, which is really, really annoying.

Fingol darkwater · Post by **Fingol darkwater** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:26 pm

The stuff with Eltharion still happened, but now he appears in his 'historic' form in the new HE book.

Eldacar · Post by **Eldacar** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 2:40 am

You know, small things like the the effing Storm of Chaos?

It still happened. Some other books (I think the O&G AB is one of them) as well as the more recent WHFRP stuff has mentioned the Storm of Chaos taking place.

1. How is possible that Kouran is dead and still is appearing in the army list (and how exactly did he die)?

GW does that from time to time - feature dead characters. And Tyrion killed him in combat.

2. How, ffs, Eltharion is in the High Elves army list when, in the 6th ed DE book, Malekith's torturers saw "that his spirit is broken and his body becomes little more than an empty husk" 'n' stuff?

Eltharion is in his historical format. That doesn't mean all the Swordmaster stuff didn't happen, though. The designer of the HE book even specifically stated (in a post on Warseer) that the reason 'old' Eltharion is featured is because he felt that version of the character to be superior to the Swordmaster version.

Highborn on black dragon · Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:42 pm

Sorry for continuing with this, but can anyone tell me where is described the death of Kouran? And who's in charge of the Black Guard now?

Camaris · Post by **Camaris** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:55 pm

Highborn on Black Dragon wrote:Sorry for continuing with this, but can anyone tell me where is described the death of Kouran? And who's in charge of the Black Guard now?

In the old High Elf Army Book. Basically, Malekith's armies are attacking some gate, and Tyrion leads a sortie of silver helms into advancing black guard and duels and kills Kouran in the process.

Sorceress · Post by **Sorceress** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:58 am

I prefer to imagine Morathi waking up (next to Malekith of course) and finding Kouran in the shower and realising his death and Eltharion's ridiculous excuse for character development was all just a dream.

Mordru · Post by **Mordru** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:13 am

Kouran only has one wound. He is lucky to live as long as he did.

Artein · Post by **Artein** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:21 pm

I don't know, but it looks like the elven timeline is taken back a little. There's no current invasion with lots of Clack Dragons, dying Kouran, Malus leading armies of the Witch King, blind Eltharion stuff, our Lustrian campaign form SoC.
Neither in our, nor HE armybook....

And the history was changed a little, now Morathi wasn't saved from a Slaaneshii warband but from Daemons, Har Ganeth is the new city of Hellebron and Temple of Khaine, there's even not a word about Cult of Slaanesh, or Slaanesh in general (only N'kari that Malekith summoned to kill Everqueen)

Cennedi · Post by **Cennedi** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:32 pm

All of these changes are for the best IMO. I was never a fan of the dark elves becoming a glorified slaanesh cult. we already have a slaanesh army list.

Artein · Post by **Artein** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:11 pm

I also like them. However some of them are quite significant

Sezax · Post by **Sezax** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:47 pm

Kouran died but that doesnt mean you cant play him. War of the beard is also past and you can play it acording to HE AB.

GW is very careful about dancing at the line of changing history. In new DE AB it is not said that DE dont worship Slaanesh, it just isn´t mentioned here.

GW just didnt wish to talk again and again about things we already know, but rather tell us something new.

Morathi was captured by warband of Slaaneshi deamons.

Sorceress · Post by **Sorceress** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:45 am

cennedi wrote:All of these changes are for the best IMO. I was never a fan of the dark elves becoming a glorified slaanesh cult. we already have a slaanesh army list.

I hear where you're coming from but I'm equally mindful towards the temple of Khaine becoming The Cult of Khorne since Mike Lee actually said that for the purpose of his writing, Khaine was Khorne and his writing seems to be used for a lot of the new canon.

Macknight · Post by **Macknight** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:00 am

yeah its really annoying indeed, at least they should come up with something to justify their actions, like an imposter Kouran(like Achelles in Troy the movie), featuring dead characters is fine for certain armies like VC, they always come back with time it seems.

Eldacar · Post by **Eldacar** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:23 am

Basically, Malekith's armies are attacking some gate, and Tyrion leads a sortie of silver helms into advancing black guard and duels and kills Kouran in the process.

The gate is one of the main routes into central Ulthuan (the Inner Kingdoms). In other words, it's a fairly important position strategically.

Taloc · Post by **Taloc** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:13 am

im wondering what will happen with warhammer online, or if all the recent contridictons are because of it, due to everyone dying then coming back to life, when new army books come out, will suddenly characters who are dead spring back to life the next day and have their gravestones removed?

but by the time i start playing that i ll probably be punching myself its so inaccurate (god damn disciples of khaine, and male sorcerers).

i guess they brought kouran back as they were too lazy to think of a new leader of the black guard and decided that kouran was too angry to stay dead.

and i ve checked the fourth and sixth edition army books and it says "chaos warband" and in the new book it just says "chaos" no mention to mortals or demons, so im guessing it was just marauders or something.

Zardock · Post by **Zardock** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:28 am

im wondering what will happen with warhammer online, or if all the recent contridictons are because of it, due to everyone dying then coming back to life, when new army books come out, will suddenly characters who are dead spring back to life the next day and have their gravestones removed?

Unfortunately, Warhammer Online is set in a parallel time line, with many events actually changed.

(this is actually good lets the developers have creative freedom in terms of events)

The actual reason for the time rewind i would assume is because they may want heroes to be used again, and they may even still be dead. Now im not sure on this but didn't Azhag make a return in the OnG book? Fairly sure he took a cannon the the face some time ago....

and i ve checked the fourth and sixth edition army books and it says "chaos warband" and in the new book it just says "chaos" no mention to mortals or demons, so im guessing it was just marauders or something.

It was daemons, he met Morathi in the aftermath of the First Invasion, which was totally daemons, humans lacked the naval skill to reach Ulthuan and were up in the north being corrupted by chaos, or not even around at that point i would ask Eldacar for clarification on that.

Sedro · Post by **Sedro** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:54 am

azhag is back in the new book, just slayed by my woodies

Zardock · Post by **Zardock** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:59 am

Is he still "dead" for purposes of fluff etc, as in he did die at the battle of "Azhag got shot by a cannon in the face and died" (ok i didn't remember the real name of the battle shhh)

Hmmm i have not myself acquired the new army book yet though the changes to fluff seem minimal, seeing as the storm of chaos was a bit of a fluff disaster considering the whole rough tie up of the campaign perhaps if it never happened then the world would be a better place. Where the final battle at least seemed feasable not "archaeon was triumphant defeating all of the empires heroes then getting 'ead butted by grimgor the end"

Darluith · Post by **Darluith** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:27 am

The Cult of Slannesh is mentioned in the new AB (Name changed back to its original "Cult of Excess"), and its still working in Ulthuan. As for Eltharion and Kouran, no idea about Kouran, but GW apparently nixed the swordmaster story (at least some of the HE players I know said it that way).