What happened to Malekith in the realm of Chaos

Dainis_silentblade · Post by **Dainis_silentblade** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:11 pm

I think that one of the most interesting parts of the new army book is when it describes how Malekith had to warp himself into the vortex of chaos in order to save his life. What happened to him whilst he was there and how long was he gone, any suggestions?

Javert · Post by **Javert** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:39 pm

His mind was destroyed by the pure horror that is the warp. I'm surprised he ever recovered.

And he could have been in there for thousands of years while he was only gone here for one day, because time passes differently in the warp. I don't think we'll ever know because I doubt Malekith knows himself.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:45 pm

nobody knows what happened to him there except him, he hasnt even told Morathi who knows everything else about him. All that we know is whatever he saw/thought/did there warped his mind and changed him completely. He lost his bitter anger and it was replaced with a dread cold that made him more malicious and spiteful in his work, and led him to hate everyone and everything. Nobody can say how long he was there because time flows differently in the realm of chaos. If he was gone for a week in the real world, he may have battled his way through the realm of chaos for two centuries. nobody can say.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:47 pm

I think it's safe to say he had to make some pretty horrible bargains to get out of there. You don't get anything for free in the realms of chaos...

Endra divini · Post by **Endra divini** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:45 am

Did he get sucked in the realm in the old book, or is this new fluff.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:10 am

That has always been part of his fluff. He wasnt sucked into the realm of chaos, he put himself there. He was fighting a winning battle so Teclis decided he had to act, so he gathered all his energy into one bolt of magic and threw it at Malekith. He saw it coming and tried to block it, but was too slow and the bolt partially hit him, wrapping him in a vortex where his old burning returned as Asuryan unleashed his wrath at Malekith. Seeing no other option, the King threw himself into the realm of chaos to escape.

Kreoss · Post by **Kreoss** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:41 am

In the new book, it mentions him talking about a forest of eyes and a couple other odd landscapes. Not that it is much to go on, but it gives an idea.

Soots12 · Post by **Soots12** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:10 am

maybe the other stuff he saw was to horrific to talk about....like battleing for his soul against hordes of daemons n such...but it seems when he came back he was in bad shape...so im guessin he had to fight his way out

Kreoss · Post by **Kreoss** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:52 am

Either he had to fight/bargain his way out, or the terrain and landscapes that he had to traverse numbed his mind, or a combination!

Dam'rek · Post by **Dam'rek** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:55 am

I don't think he would have done much bargaining in there, he had nothing to bargain. His soul was already in the realm of chaos so he wasn't exactly in a position to negotiate.

But I think the chances that he went on a journey kinda like Marius Holseher (mentioned in the daemon book) but maybe it was less pleasant for our unfortunate King.

Post by **Drainial** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:38 pm

As king of a mortal realm I think that he has a decent bargaining chip, ie the souls of his people. Not that I am sugesting that he did sell the souls of all Druchii to some deamon or other, but its a thought.

Chimera · Post by **Chimera** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:49 pm

Being the son of Aenerion with a legitimate claim to the Ulthuan throne, maybe he sold the souls of all the High Elves to get out

Eldacar · Post by **Eldacar** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 10:16 am

Chimera wrote:Being the son of Aenerion with a legitimate claim to the Ulthuan throne, maybe he sold the souls of all the High Elves to get out

Except he doesn't have a legitimate claim, since the throne isn't hereditary. He could offer High Elven souls if they were slaves that he picked up somewhere, but that's about it. The only way he could even offer Dark Elven souls is if he went out and sacrificed them to Chaos (or had them sacrificed, either or). And the downside to an agreement like that is what happens if/when you can't deliver on those souls.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:03 am

Eldacar wrote:
Chimera wrote:Being the son of Aenerion with a legitimate claim to the Ulthuan throne, maybe he sold the souls of all the High Elves to get out

Except he doesn't have a legitimate claim, since the throne isn't hereditary. He could offer High Elven souls if they were slaves that he picked up somewhere, but that's about it. The only way he could even offer Dark Elven souls is if he went out and sacrificed them to Chaos (or had them sacrificed, either or). And the downside to an agreement like that is what happens if/when you can't deliver on those souls.

I'm pretty sure the consequenses of not fulfilling the bargain would not stop either a Dark Elf or a daemon/God from striking the deal.

Doriili bariiliia · Post by **Doriili bariiliia** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 2:30 pm

Perhaps and this is only a wild theory but maybe he managed to retreive his soul and that is what change him. Time is meaningless in the realm of Chaos after all.

Eldacar · Post by **Eldacar** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:39 am

sulla wrote:I'm pretty sure the consequenses of not fulfilling the bargain would not stop either a Dark Elf or a daemon/God from striking the deal.

If he doesn't make good on the deal, they get him. The Chaos Gods/various Daemons/whatever don't really have anything to lose, but the person striking the bargain does.

Slortor · Post by **Slortor** » Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:08 am

Eldacar wrote:
sulla wrote:I'm pretty sure the consequenses of not fulfilling the bargain would not stop either a Dark Elf or a daemon/God from striking the deal.

If he doesn't make good on the deal, they get him. The Chaos Gods/various Daemons/whatever don't really have anything to lose, but the person striking the bargain does.

i would have thought Malekith could renege on his end of the deal quite well. Being one of the WH worlds most powerful wizards he has been proved capable of enslaving daemons before (N'Kari for example) so unless he actually bargained with a god he shoudlnt be too badly off. If it got really bad he could summon the convent + Morathi to help him so he probably would get away with breaking a deal with anyone short of Tzeetch or Khorne.

Aspiring executioner · Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:32 am

I don't think Malekith can reach out to Morathi or the convents while inside the Realm of Chaos. Trying to use magic while inside the Realm of Chaos is not the smartest idea whith all those daemons near him... particularly if he ventured near Khorne's realm...

Coldeyes · Post by **Coldeyes** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 5:00 am

I would have thought that using magic inside the Realm of Chaos would make you powerful tenfold. Since your actually INSIDE the source of all your power.

Anyways I respect Malekith even more after surviving a 'week' in the Realm of Chaos. I think even if Malekith wanted to it would be impossible for him to describe the things he has seen. He certainly has learned his lesson that pure bloody rage doesnt get him very far and I think the experience changed Malekith for the better.

I doubt he struck any deals with any daemons, maybe the Chaos Gods themselves but they have a habit of making their dominion over you very noticable, especially powerful champions.

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:14 am

Eldacar wrote:
sulla wrote:I'm pretty sure the consequenses of not fulfilling the bargain would not stop either a Dark Elf or a daemon/God from striking the deal.

If he doesn't make good on the deal, they get him. The Chaos Gods/various Daemons/whatever don't really have anything to lose, but the person striking the bargain does.

They only get him when he dies, and I wouldn't be surprised if a master sorceror has plans to cheat them even then... Cheating daemons may be extremely difficult, but it's not impossible, even in the warhammer mythos.

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:19 am

Eldacar wrote:
Chimera wrote:Being the son of Aenerion with a legitimate claim to the Ulthuan throne, maybe he sold the souls of all the High Elves to get out

Except he doesn't have a legitimate claim, since the throne isn't hereditary. He could offer High Elven souls if they were slaves that he picked up somewhere, but that's about it. The only way he could even offer Dark Elven souls is if he went out and sacrificed them to Chaos (or had them sacrificed, either or). And the downside to an agreement like that is what happens if/when you can't deliver on those souls.

Technically Malekith could have a legitimate claim on the throne because Aenarion declared him as his heir and it was only when the first phoenix king was dead that the princes decided to elect a king instead of choosing Malekith, so I'd say that Malekith has a legitimate claim.

As to what happened to him - no one knows... he didn't even tell his mummy... But it must have been somewhat of an eye-opener to him because of the way he was changed when he came back. It was a good thing that his burning anger was gone because sometime or other, he would have lead the Dark Elves to extinction with his burning anger because he was being totally unreasonable. So now there is a king who thinks about what he's going to do which is a big plus for the Druchii, methinks.

They only get him when he dies, and I wouldn't be surprised if a master sorceror has plans to cheat them even then... Cheating daemons may be extremely difficult, but it's not impossible, even in the warhammer mythos.

The Daemons can get him whenever he is in the realm of chaos (if he isn't strong enough to fight his way out), and even though Malekith does not age, he is not immortal in a sense that he cannot be killed, and what has happened once might happen again and so Malekith had better be careful because at some point the Chaos Gods will get him (and if its only when they finally overrun the world, because they will if Malekith's plans are successful).

HUZZAH!

Sulla · Post by **Sulla** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:21 am

Mr. Anderson wrote:
They only get him when he dies, and I wouldn't be surprised if a master sorceror has plans to cheat them even then... Cheating daemons may be extremely difficult, but it's not impossible, even in the warhammer mythos.

The Daemons can get him whenever he is in the realm of chaos (if he isn't strong enough to fight his way out), and even though Malekith does not age, he is not immortal in a sense that he cannot be killed, and what has happened once might happen again and so Malekith had better be careful because at some point the Chaos Gods will get him (and if its only when they finally overrun the world, because they will if Malekith's plans are successful).

HUZZAH!

That's pure speculation. You have no reason to suspect the chaos gods are even interested in Malekith. If he made a bargain with a daemon, there's nothing preventing him making a better bargain with another more powerful daemon in exchange for enslaving/destroying the original daemon. Malekith's no fool. He's not going to sit meekly waiting for his doom. There are any number of scenarios where some mortal as powerful as Malekith could cheat his way out of eternal damnation...

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:01 am

That's pure speculation. You have no reason to suspect the chaos gods are even interested in Malekith. If he made a bargain with a daemon, there's nothing preventing him making a better bargain with another more powerful daemon in exchange for enslaving/destroying the original daemon. Malekith's no fool. He's not going to sit meekly waiting for his doom. There are any number of scenarios where some mortal as powerful as Malekith could cheat his way out of eternal damnation...

This whole topic is pure speculation

we don't know what happened to him, so we are speculating.
As to whether the chaos gods are interested in him - they are, that's for sure. The nature of their interest of course is not clear but what the chaos gods do know is that Malekith is the strongest weapon against the High elves who are all that stands in their way of conquering the world. I doubt Malekith has made any kind of pact with the dark gods though - he has devoted himself to Khaine (who is NOT khorne...).
In the end it doesn't matter whether the chaos gods want him or a lesser demon - once Malekith is in the realm of chaos, there is nothing standing in between him and the demons he might have cheated (and I'm sure he has cheated demons... N'kari for example would be pretty keen on getting hold of Malekith I can imagine). What I meant was that Malekith had better watch out because he doesn't want to expose himself to the realm of chaos all to often in order to avoid increasing chances that the demons will get him.

HUZZAH!

Eldacar · Post by **Eldacar** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:09 am

They only get him when he dies, and I wouldn't be surprised if a master sorceror has plans to cheat them even then...

Short of doing something like Nagash has done (drawing his soul forever beyond their reach by removing it from the Warp entirely), I can't exactly think of anything off the top of my head that would get him out of a deal. That's the nature of deals with the Chaos Gods - if you promise them your soul if you fail (you might need to sacrifice people to them, or something along those lines), and you fail, then they're going to get your soul, one way or another.

Technically Malekith could have a legitimate claim on the throne because Aenarion declared him as his heir and it was only when the first phoenix king was dead that the princes decided to elect a king instead of choosing Malekith, so I'd say that Malekith has a legitimate claim.

Unless the throne 1) isn't hereditary or 2) the person in question (Malekith) renounced his claim (which he did).

Mr. anderson · Post by **Mr. anderson** » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:25 am

2) the person in question (Malekith) renounced his claim (which he did).

I'm pretty sure that Malekith only renounced his claim for appearances. The way he sees it, I think he still is sure that has the rightful claim because he did not truly renounce his claim. Of course this is a double edged sword - on one hand he did officially renounce it, on the other hand he himself knew that he did not mean it, so if we look at it his way (we're Druchii after all), Malekith still has a legitimate claim because the throne was hereditary according to Aenarion. Malekith only renounced his claim because he knew that he stood little chance against the assembled princes of Ulthuan.

HUZZAH!