Family/Unity, Druchii, Drow and development of GW DE

Rkhatzar · Post by **Rkhatzar** » Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:26 pm

Hm,
Druchii are based on Drow, but had some differences, were Chaos Elves - at the beginning. Then, in my opinion they become different, a specially in hated, but fluffy great 5th ed.

For me they ware allays united around family and race, against others - and thus different from divided, chaotic Drow. Druchii were much more LAWFUL [in DnD term] and East (China, Persia?) influenced.

But on the other hand we have Tullaris, Death Night, Assassins, and Malus.

Are we Drow of Warhammer, Chaos Elves, or something different?

What do you thin about Druchii families, unity and respect for strict order?

Also, after W40K was cut from Warhammer, Dark Eldar and Dark Elf become much, much different, in my opinion it should be like that.

Malekhit crushed cults of pleasure, also during the fall, we were different, gods abandoned us, only Khaine stayed. And "now" 8th ed. introduce new pantheon without any High Elf connotation, bluring old fluff.
There were point, when DE, were painted, as those who fight mutation, chaos, degeneration, and point where we were chaos elves (3rd and maybe 4th ed.).

Dialeth · Post by **Dialeth** » Sun May 01, 2011 10:49 pm

Well I must say that Drow are not the only inspiration in DE, the other main source is Elric of Melnibone, cause they are almost the same:

Malus, possesed by a themon is pretty similar to elric and stormbringer
Malekith´s scarss and biterness is similar to elric
Morathi lust for power refelcts Yirkoon´s treachery (As Malekith´s ploy to take over Ulthuan)

Aszvet · Post by **Aszvet** » Fri May 13, 2011 12:34 pm

I Agree, Druchii are more like the Elric Saga then Drow, also Warhammer lore in general pulls alot from LotR myth.

In my Exp Drow are a underground elves that worship spiders. As Druchii, i see no under ground cities, or Spider Statues. As both are evil, Drow tend to have Grey/ black skin and white hair, Druchii are said to be Fair skinned with Black hair, another opposite.

If you are trying to ref. old GW then Druchii started out as a form of Chaos Elves but every evil thing started out as Chaos. ( they had Chaos orcs for a while!) As the Story and Fluff came about they became very much there own.

So imo Druchii are only like the weak bottom feeding drow in that they are evil society of elves.

Saintofm · Post by **Saintofm** » Sat May 14, 2011 8:23 pm

Druchii also have this Roman attitude of we are descended fro ma a great warrior people (In the same way Romans thought they were descended from the God Of War), so they are more Spartan and Roman then they are anything else. That said, Spartains weeded out anything they thought was weak from birth, and Romans perfected back Stabbing (sound like a race of elves we hold dear to out hearts?).

Rkhatzar · Post by **Rkhatzar** » Sat May 14, 2011 8:58 pm

there was huge treed about similarities: Persian, Nazi, Babylonians, Chinese, with Sparta at the last places. And they started as chaos elves, to be true - thou i'm great enemy of chaos myself, my armies fluff and build were mostly anti chaos forces of Khaines fanatics:)

Aszvet · Post by **Aszvet** » Wed May 18, 2011 1:18 pm

In the Fluffy Druchii did not come from chaos elves, just in the GW time line of minatures, they made chaos elf minis then they changed them into Druchii to fit he fluff they were writing.

Rkhatzar · Post by **Rkhatzar** » Wed May 18, 2011 2:55 pm

Are you sure about 3rd. ed?
I'v started from 4th. and they were normal by than, but....
also some Khorn=Khaine, symbols and tips there ware in 4th;(

Post by **Drainial** » Wed May 18, 2011 3:21 pm

Aszvet wrote:In the Fluffy Druchii did not come from chaos elves, just in the GW time line of minatures, they made chaos elf minis then they changed them into Druchii to fit he fluff they were writing.

Khaine was origionaly khorne, this was stated explicitly, the Druchii might not have been part of the horde but they certainly worshipped Chaos even if they didn't realise it.

Saintofm · Post by **Saintofm** » Wed May 18, 2011 10:57 pm

Drainial wrote:
Aszvet wrote:In the Fluffy Druchii did not come from chaos elves, just in the GW time line of minatures, they made chaos elf minis then they changed them into Druchii to fit he fluff they were writing.

Khaine was origionaly khorne, this was stated explicitly, the Druchii might not have been part of the horde but they certainly worshipped Chaos even if they didn't realise it.

Back then, yes, as all the gods people worshiped were a form f one of the four dark gods.

That said, now a days the two are much different. Yes they are both gods of war and love the sight of blood, but khaine doesn't care how the blood is split, or from where it comes from; Khorne does.

Sure, he prefers close combat, but that just gets you up close and personal where the blood is the hottest.

Khorn wants you to be angry, and berzerk, killing to eliviate that great rage. To kill for enjoyment would only help his enemy Slannesh.

Dialeth · Post by **Dialeth** » Tue May 24, 2011 10:39 am

Wll actually Khorne´s cultist are frenzy because Khorne himself reflects his madness on them he don´t want you to de frenzy,but because he is frenzy 24/7

Post by **Drainial** » Tue May 24, 2011 12:43 pm

If anything it is Khorne who does not care how the blood letting happens since as one of the great four his 'vortex' of emotions from which he draws his being and power is far wider than the rather narrow confines of Khaine's.

Sezax · Post by **Sezax** » Sat May 28, 2011 1:49 pm

First GW has small resources and little plans, it briefly introduces the popular of idea of ,,some evil elves existing".

Then it uses the legend about King Arthur (Aenerion), Merlin (Caledor), Morgana (Morathi) and Mordred (Malekith) and Excalibur (Widowmaker) to present not very original kind of history for the elves.

Then it tries to create ,,some dark elves" and works with the gods already existing. The original fluff is primitive in nature, all evil is chaos. Chaos Elves are associated with the only ,,evil-like elven god" Khaine ( who has SAME rune as Khorne ( NOT similar, SAME ) and the only ,,elven-like chaos god" Slaanesh.

THEN finally some money comes to GW and Elves start to show some kind of promise (=chance to be sold). GW slowly realize the DE players often HATE the idea of their DE being just pawns of Chaos so they start clouding the whole thing, especially when it comes to relastionship of Fantasy Khaine to Fantasy Khorne and 40k Khaine.

Then Gav Thorpe is in very difficult situation: He is about to write new novels about Sundering and new DE AB. There are people in GW who hate the whole idea of SoC. There are also many DE players who HATE any kind of link between Chaos and DE. And there there are DE who LOVED the Cult of Slaanesh.

Clever as he is , he comes with the best solution: killing remains of illusion that there ever was anything like COHERENT OFFICAL fluff. People like Dalamar who are AGAIN and AGAIN hysterically screaming ,,BL is not official fluff" and pretending that ABs make some sense when you put them together ( like HE AB where thousands of our crossbowmen and Malekith himself openly worship Slaanesh right before Witch Elves :-D ) are satisfied, peole who love BL are satisfied.

Chaos lovers are satisfied. PERHAPS we worship all Chaos gods in elvenfied forms and so they can paint their DE army of Tzeentch ( sorry Hekarti .-) ). Chaos haters are also happy, cause PERHAPS we have our OWN dark gods who have nothing to with Chaos. Everyone is happy. The ABs make even less sense together now, but who cares as long as we buy that awesome new mandrake miniatures and chat about them on druchii.net .-)

Sezax · Post by **Sezax** » Sat May 28, 2011 2:08 pm

As for the social structure, again fluff is generally made for average people with average depth. Mos people just dont wonder about how any population can be maintained with things like Death Night happening every year.

The 6th fluff was quite interesting, I as a homosexual saw interesting similarities between the Temple of Khaine and monoteistic religions in real world - religious opression in the name of one true god, the link between nationalism and religious propaganda ( Druchii being the chosen people of Khaine ), hunt for "inner enemies of pure society" ( Cult of Slaanesh ) etc.

It also portrayed how childishly certain people see things like strength, weakness and thus the whole idea of ,,social darwinism". Treachery and egoism create weak society composed od strong individuals. Egoism is a strength when it comes to competion between memebers of the same race, but weakness when it comes to competion between races.

Hedonism of Slaanesh and Hate of Khaine are both strentgh and weakness depending on the point of view.

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:10 am

Sezax wrote: I as a homosexual

Dang it, I kept swearing I was the only homosexual warhammer player. *grumble grumble*.

However on the the topic at hand, I have not found Druchii to be either Drow or Chaos Elves. They share several of the same qualities between both, but they are different, if only in part. :-) But hey, it's fantasy difference in part is enough. :lol:

I did sit down with a friend who is a huge D&D Drow fantatic(he's started playing Dark Elves simply to paint them as drow). And we talked a lot about the difference between the two groups, as well as the similarities.

A few points we remarked on:
Both have the main elements of the church run by females.
Both have a murderous hatred of their kin.
Both worship dark elven gods, instead of generic evil gods.(up to debate of course)

Druchii have magic limited to females with few exceptions.
Druchii seem to have a slightly more realistic society(coin toss here)
Druchii are more egalitarian.
Druchii seem to be closer to accomplishing their goal of wiping the good elves off the planet.
Druchii have a less loving god(the way he explained Lolth at least, we are talking slights here though).

All in all, it seemed that the Druchii are not Drow. In any sense of the word. The inspiration is there to a degree, but I wouldn't even claim it to be terribly large.

Rkhatzar · Post by **Rkhatzar** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:06 am

for me they aren't drow.
Maybe I'm wired, but I think, that Druchii are far moreunited, even as there are tensions and under skin wars.

Drow are a little mindless killers, chaotic-evil egoists, vile druchii are much more ARMY organised and bound by tradition. Society of Naggarond one big ARMY. much less chaotic, even as "week shall die so the strong shall prevail" attitude is common.

Post by **Calisson** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:55 pm

Rkhatzar wrote:there was huge treed about similarities: Persian, Nazi, Babylonians, Chinese, with Sparta at the last places. And they started as chaos elves, to be true - thou i'm great enemy of chaos myself, my armies fluff and build were mostly anti chaos forces of Khaines fanatics:)

You may be talking about these two threads:
The Druchii are based on Colonial American Slavers?
Poll: The Druchii are based on which civilization?

By the way, another difference between D&D's drows and DE is that drow are resolute subterranean dwellers, to the point that their weapons and armors melt to the sunshine (IIRC Baldur's Gate roleplay computer game).

Overmind · Post by **Overmind** » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:42 pm

Hmm some interesting points in that america slavers ones.

Rkhatzar · Post by **Rkhatzar** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:04 am

thx, Callisson. Indeed I was.