Chariot comparison

[Dggrj]

So I'm reading the mortal chaos list for the first time carefully and I realized that our new chariots are almost identical to theirs. I don't know how much they used to differ (I believe more) but I'm surprised at the diffs now, and I would like the playtesters' (and others') thoughts.

Differences b/w DE and Chaos chariots
We cause fear
We're stupid
We have Ld 9 over their 8
They strike at S5 every round of combat vs ours only on the charge
We have rxb's
They get 2-for-1 special slots.

Now if they want fear its 20 points, though I don't see why so high. I'd say us having fear and stupidity at Ld 9 about cancel out on chariots, since it won't outnumber and autobreak. The extra rxb shots will be nice now with AP and without paying 10 points for them, especially when we used to lose one if putting a char in it.

But overall, they're almost identical (in my mind at least) except the most important difference: 2-for-1

Why did we lose this? Looks like we could have kept it at the same points cost reasonably to me.

[Minsc]

You forgot that both the Druchii Crew and the Cold Ones have Eternal Hatred.

[Zeth]

Because GW is generally trying to remove 2 for 1 choices.
We got chariots that don't take a special with a character riding on them in place of this however.

[Cenyu]

Remember that the Chaos list will receive an update later that year and might just as well lose the 2 for 1 chariot choice.

[Mordru]

I agree with the OP and am suprised our chariots are as strong as they are now. Almost everyone fears chaos chariots and ours are very, very similar.

The CoCs are being significantly underated in many circles. As a long time chaose mortals player I can assure you that these chariots are hard. It is very good to get some T5 3+AS models in an elf army. S7 will be an issue but the chariot is very resilient against normal attacks. It's d6 +1 impact hits plus 2S4 and 2S5 hatred attacks on the charge is going to be awesome. Hatred will help reduce the chances of a chariots ultimate failure....fluff impact rolls and whiffs from the crew and creatures. We should be able to cause at least 4-5 wounds against most enemy on the charge and the potential is there for a good 8-9 wounds on a consistent basis.

[Rork]

But overall, they're almost identical (in my mind at least) except the most important difference: 2-for-1

Why did we lose this?

Probably because DE chariots got a number of improvements - the crew's stats are now the same as COKs (plus the hatred).

Chaos chariots have to be viewed in the context of their own list - they're a lot more about combat than Dark Elves - no crossbowmen, no RBTs (and the hellcannon is an expensive lone shooting beast).

The 2 for 1 may change by the time the proper Warriors of Chaos book comes around.

My view? Stop with the "Grass is always greener" approach. Chaos has a different play style to Dark Elves.

[Crawd]

My view? Stop with the "Grass is always greener" approach. Chaos has a different play style to Dark Elves.

I can't agree more with you. Also, in the 6th edition, I was willing to pay 194 points for 2 chariots with spears and now for 6 points more, I have better crews (S4), crossbows and Hatred on everyone. It's a nice deal, in my opinion.

I won't complain because they are way better than before and because you can't compare units between races anymore.

[Animatronicdemonskwerral]

yeah theres alot of "grass is greener" around here, especially with HE.

the 2 for 1 thing shouldnt be too big of an issue, since you can mount a hero in one without slot usage, and harpies moved to core (then again BG moved to special also...)

[Godless-mimicry]

You shouldn't really compare between armies though.

[Mordru]

The fact that they are not two for one just serves to make them something of a choice rather than an obvious choice. I am very pleased that I'm having to decide which specials to fit into my slots. Vastly better now as opposed to last edition when special selections as a whole were less than compelling.

[Dggrj]

I should say that I am a big fan of our new list including the chariots, was just wondering. It was not about the grass and it's relative color, I promise.

Rork, I know about the statline increase, I effectively mentioned it by not including it in differences b/w ours and theirs. It's great!

You forgot that both the Druchii Crew and the Cold Ones have Eternal Hatred.

I need to stop making posts late at night. This is very true and nice. I tried to get this posted earlier today but had to get off the bus (yes, there's wifi on the bus), and it probably would've stopped people's complaining about me.

Remember that the Chaos list will receive an update later that year and might just as well lose the 2 for 1 chariot choice.

But the chaos PDF list Just came out late May with 2 for 1, seems like they would've nixed it to me.

[Tethlis]

But the chaos PDF list Just came out late May with 2 for 1, seems like they would've nixed it to me.

2-for-1 is a very straightforward rule with existing precedents. Given that the White Dwarf Chaos list was pretty rushed and brieft, 2-for-1 is an easy advantage to give that doesn't require extensive playtesting. When the final book is drafted up, they'll be able to devote more time, effort, and ideas to something that's (hopefully) innovative and original compared to 2-for-1.