Opinions about the new special characters

[Silashand]

I'm really disappointed with our captains. Kouran and Tullaris reduced to ridiculously overpriced, single wound champion upgrades. I expected more.

QFT. Even RoR heroes have 2 wounds each which is basically what these two are.

Cheers, Gary

[Taikoubou]

The Special characters are awesome in my opinion.

I believe that all the characters in the book cost less then they did before. Even if Morathi is only reduced by 15 or 20 points (Old book at home).

First off Malekith has toughness 4. That is huge. I don't know if the spellshield is new or old. Forgot the old Dark Elves book at my house, but that seems sweet.

Lords, Heroes, core special rare and other characters that are added to the book are getting there stats reduced or added to how all the books are becoming (still think Orcs and Goblins got shafted).

For me Hellbron is new in all respects to me. Started Warhammer fantasy later then most who amy age. I started really with looking at wood elves but playing th Dark Elves who had a new book, but then the wood elves book came out. Then I went to OK because i wanted something that had more then 3 toughness.

Hellbron with S10 attacks seem great. She is a Witch Elve so of course she doesn't have any armor. She counts as having 2 magical hand weapons. She has an amulet that protects her and her unit from magic. And that is after other dispel attempts. She has Rune of Khain and that gives her +d3 more attacks. Her unit can't give the enemy many things because of the Witchbrew. She gives other khainite around her her leadership for leadership tests.

Malus is a Hero choice like he should be. More rules for him that benifit him and he cost less then before. More options for the army and cost less.

Shadowblade is sweet as well. Of course he is a paper figher, but he is a assassin. Being able to hiding in groups is not cheesy. They are assassins, they are adept at hiding in groups without being noticed.

Lokhir is so cool. He is a hero and he causes terror and has regeneration. Isn't that so cool ad he is a Special hero that is a corsair. They needed one for so long. His abilities are just awesome. He can move around so good that anyone attacking the unit from any position makes he really awesome. 3 + enemy ranked unit he i attacking, just makes it easier for DE to get more victory points that can help a whole lot, even if he is slain you get double.

The special champions in the Black Guard and Executioners is kinda expensive, but if you really look at it they have magical equipment that cost a lot on there own and they give special rules like Unbreakable and caues fear. So in the end they give your army more playing room then before.

Off the subject. Hydra is so so so muc better then before. Yah the lost a toughness, but with how the new books are they are making stuff more equal to what they are. Its a rare choice so 5 wounds sounds good and it fits with monsters. Regeneration is so what they needed. There beastmasters have armor piercing in Close combat. That is cool. They have the equipment for that so why wouldn't they have it.

[Silashand]

The special champions in the Black Guard and Executioners is kinda expensive, but if you really look at it they have magical equipment that cost a lot on there own and they give special rules like Unbreakable and caues fear. So in the end they give your army more playing room then before.

Not really. The abilities they give to their units go away once they are dead and 1W, T3 champions are pretty easy to get rid of IMO. They sound cool, but in practice I just don't see them as being all that worth it.

Cheers, Gary

[Elfik]

I think Kouran might be good if you're not fielding a BSB, and probably no cauldron either, to give the Black Guard a boost. They probably still need the ASF banner though, since as pointed out he's fragile. So if a BG Tower master costs over 50pts, you're paying 20-25pts for unbreakable and the S test ability. Tullaris of course is worse than Kouran because his unit can't take the ASF banner, for a decent price I mean. The fear ability can be nice for execs but it makes the unit more one-dimensional. Now if execs came with fear...

[Cenyu]

Malekith: Very nice. The S5 T4 really lends him uniqueness. Being able to field him without a Dragon and on different mounts is also a valuable feature which mitigates his crappy save against magic - and the two new old items Spelleater Shield and Circlet of Iron just make him even better at withstanding magic from afar and dishing out destruction himself. A real improvement over the previous incarnation.

Morathi: Being able to choose between the Darksword and Heartrender is a bit superfluous, I'd rather have seen the Darksword in the normal magic weapons list or maybe even available for Assassins. Oh well.

Hellebron: Really neat.

Malus: I am not at all happy with our iconic Dark Elf anti-hero being... merely a hero. Malus deserved more than this after all the hardships he has gone through in the background.

Shadowblade: They halved his attacks from 6th to 7th edition and gave him the somehow crappiest toxin available to the temple. He should at least have gained the Rune of Khaine to be able to climb up to 7 attacks. The downgrade from Lord to Hero is a good feature, though.

Lokhir Felheart: I could honestly have done without a completely new hero. His rules may be nice but I'd rather have seen one of the following two gentlemen make a "proper" hero appearance instead of the "champion with ambitions" version we got.

Kouran: He was a Lord in the last edition for Khaine's sake, with stats rivalling that of Malekith! And now he is worse than a hero. Not at all happy.

Tullaris: Was a hero with 4 attacks back in 6th edition additional rules (and wielded the Executioner's axe and the Black Amulet and had killing blow against anything for 200 points or something). His new version does not even deserve the term "Master of Executioners".


So... actually the level of content decreases from top to bottom.

[Dggrj]

You guys make me laugh sometimes, you seem to look at things in a single context. Almost as if there is nothing else in the army other than that single figure or unit which happens to be under discussion.

I am referring to the comments about Malus.

If you are going to use him then your list will need to be designed with inbuilt redundancy to accommodate any weakness he has. He is after all, a pricey SC - no denying that. But with the correct build you won't need 10 COKs to babysit him. Nor will you lose him to magic. Nor will he sit there allowing himself to get charged.

Look at the greater picture and imagine him in a unit if you are going to theorize about his effectiveness.

I respect your posts and ability greatly DA, and would not at all doubt that you can outplay and out-list-design me. The thing that bugs me about Malus is that for his cost it makes it hard to have redundancy. Taking a 275pt hero who belongs in a unit of COK's forces more towards an all-eggs situation, which makes me uncomfortable. So you don't need 10 COK's, but it seems like if you want some protection to use the "Look out, sir!" rule you'll need to start with 6 or 7 of them, then you almosthave a rank bonus, so why not get it? And then it's a 600pt unit. Or, you put him in a unit of 5 (of course with a little command) and you still have a ~430pt unit where after one kill he's vulnerable to randomized shooting. I'd feel a little safer if it were only a 140pt hero in there who, against RnF, has much closer killing power now than before.

[Scallat]

I consider Malus being a hero choice to be a point in his favour. His points cost and stat line (after drinking the pot) plus magic items and rules make him a lord choice in all but name as far as I'm concerned. I'll be taking him as my general and using that lord slot for a level 4. Win/Win.

Honestly, coming back to something said earlyer, I really think this whole "cold ones are too slow" thing is a load of old rubbish. If you're getting charged with your cold ones then it's no ones fault but your own. In fact I think I'll start a new thread.

[Dark Alliance]

You guys make me laugh sometimes, you seem to look at things in a single context. Almost as if there is nothing else in the army other than that single figure or unit which happens to be under discussion.

I am referring to the comments about Malus.

If you are going to use him then your list will need to be designed with inbuilt redundancy to accommodate any weakness he has. He is after all, a pricey SC - no denying that. But with the correct build you won't need 10 COKs to babysit him. Nor will you lose him to magic. Nor will he sit there allowing himself to get charged.

Look at the greater picture and imagine him in a unit if you are going to theorize about his effectiveness.

I respect your posts and ability greatly DA, and would not at all doubt that you can outplay and out-list-design me. The thing that bugs me about Malus is that for his cost it makes it hard to have redundancy. Taking a 275pt hero who belongs in a unit of COK's forces more towards an all-eggs situation, which makes me uncomfortable. So you don't need 10 COK's, but it seems like if you want some protection to use the "Look out, sir!" rule you'll need to start with 6 or 7 of them, then you almosthave a rank bonus, so why not get it? And then it's a 600pt unit. Or, you put him in a unit of 5 (of course with a little command) and you still have a ~430pt unit where after one kill he's vulnerable to randomized shooting. I'd feel a little safer if it were only a 140pt hero in there who, against RnF, has much closer killing power now than before.

Think about what happens in a game in real terms. If I was using Malus I would have at least 2 units of Harpies in there, which would be the missile screen. Null Talisman on the unit champion to help against magic. I would most likely have a Hydra working the opposite flank, along with Shades.

My own magic would most likely be 2 level 2 casters. Fill in the gaps with what you like then. DRs, rxbs and probably Corsairs ought to do it.

[Joyfulcheese]

@ Dark Alliance

Malekith can be given different mounting options:

- On foot: stick him in a unit of unbreakable Black Guard ftw
- Cold One
- Black Dragon
- The Black Chariot

I know, I referred to this in my post above so what is your point?

Misread on my part lol

[Darkwand]

Hellebron is just dirty nasty fun. In a unit of Witch Elves, she's a steamroller. Throw in a ASF Hag BSB, and you have a unit that is simply leaving a bloody stain.

Yeah, bloody stain of fallen witch elves to enemy missile fire...

[Deroth]

Im kind of sad that Malekith lost his awsome S6 hand but the shield he gains instead, in addition to his increased strength and toughness balances it out IMO.

Edit: fixed typos

[Thanee]

I don't know what you guys are expecting... SC shouldn't all be 1+ AS 4+ WS monstrosities that kill everything in contact automatically.

Ridiculously overpowered characters are boring as hell.

Our SC are just about perfect. They are expensive, but that's fair. They cost only one character choice, which makes them usable without gimping your whole character selection.

Malekith is expensive but very powerful. He has only a single weakness, and that is opponents with magical close combat attacks, because Destroyer is pretty unreliable.

Morathi is as good as always, actually better, since you can tool her up a bit now.

Hellebron is a beast in close combat and if anything survives she shouldn't also be almost unkillable.

Malus is a powerful hero, with S5 no armour saves, T5 and his admittedly fairly weak 3+ armour save he hits hard and isn't taken out with ease, unless you put him up against high Strength opponents.

Shadowblade has 4 S7 KB attacks in the first round, that reliably hit. That's not bad at all! And he's only a hero choice, albeit an expensive one for being a one shot expendable hero, pretty much.

Lokhir is a good, balanced hero with some offensive and some defensive potential.

Tullaris and Kouran are simply bad, though.

Bye
Thanee

[Silashand]

Tullaris and Kouran are simply bad, though.

If they simply had 2W each I think they would be more worthwhile, though I do think the champion of the Executioners *should* have the Executioner's Axe. It just makes sense IMO.

Cheers, Gary

[Thanee]

Yep, the 1W is what makes them so bad, coupled with their pretty high cost.

Bye
Thanee

[Lordofthenight]

I'm still kinda disappointed Rakarth was missed out, while they added a new character in instead. I think it would have been nice to have all the old characters back again.

[Undeadcatd]

our special characters are very situtional , and need some combination to made them work..not non-brainer choice
But almost all them are too expensive....

[Dalamar]

Rakarth making Hydrae as special would be in my every army

[Lordofthenight]

That would be disgusting Dalamar.

I thought making him expensive, but maybe a hero choice mounted on a dragon? Taking up two heroes obviously.

The WD made a big deal about us being able to take normally Lord only mounts for our heroes, so I thought this might be the logical next step. I would have had Lokir purely as a unit champion, to go alongside Kouran and Tullaris.

[Kinslayer]

If Tullaris and Kouran had 2 wounds each i would be completely satisfied with our new special character collection. However they dont, so i am not. Other than that, Malekith Malus Morathi Lokhir and Hellebron and Shadowblade are all awesome and their rules do them justice.

[Darkwand]

It's kinda hilarious in it's own way that Tullaris and Kouran can both lose a duel to a horse.

[Sulla]

Taking a 275pt hero who belongs in a unit of COK's forces more towards an all-eggs situation, which makes me uncomfortable. So you don't need 10 COK's, but it seems like if you want some protection to use the "Look out, sir!" rule you'll need to start with 6 or 7 of them, then you almosthave a rank bonus, so why not get it? And then it's a 600pt unit. Or, you put him in a unit of 5 (of course with a little command) and you still have a ~430pt unit where after one kill he's vulnerable to randomized shooting. I'd feel a little safer if it were only a 140pt hero in there who, against RnF, has much closer killing power now than before.

But, not being stupid also opens up the possibility of playing malus in a large unit of DR with shields too. Malus and the light cav on one flank.

But regardless of that, I regularly make use of a BSB with hydra banner in a CoK unit. That is a big points sink too, they get by just fine IMO.

[Mostlyharmless]

Hellebron is just dirty nasty fun. In a unit of Witch Elves, she's a steamroller. Throw in a ASF Hag BSB, and you have a unit that is simply leaving a bloody stain.

Yeah, bloody stain of fallen witch elves to enemy missile fire...

You'd be surprised how often that doesn't happen when your opponent has everything else to worry about. I played in a tournament against a dwarf gunline on saturday, and my witch elves did not take a single casualty.

[Poisonblade]

Malekith I might take for fun if my opponent is taking their racial leader (franz, thorgrimm, manfred, king..etc) or if I can't decide between a dreadlord or a lvl 4. I think I'd put him on a CO to keep points down and get a better armor save against magical attacks.

Malus hits hard, especially against other knights. If I took him I would put the ASF banner on him for insurance. That might be a nice trap for enemy cav if they didn't know you have the ASF banner.

Shadowblade's lack of attacks keeps him from being too cheesy. I think I'd use him on enemy missile troops or to take out warmachines. It's less risky.

Hellbron hits like a greater demon but had no defense. I'd only take her on foot with the ASF banner.

Lokhir is probably our best all-around hero character. If I use a corsair army he will probably be my general. Very good for a hero slot.

Kouran is okay, but a little expensive. At least his armor might save him... again, the ASF banner would be helpful.

Tullaris is bad. I doubt anyone will see him.

Morathi rules, as usual. I'd use her against other caster special characters.

[Calisson]

About Kouran and Tullaris, I see only negative mentions.
They are to be taken with their respective unit, to which they provide some interesting benefits, that can be cumulated with a standard. So you take this into account when you state they are overpriced?

[Drasanil]

So you take this into account when you state they are overpriced?

No offence, but 1 wound and no real protection makes them very easy VPs for heroes, or even simply allocated attacks, and negates the benifit of taking them in the first place.

Then there is also the fact that they are both leaders amongst the druchii people, and that relegating them to mear unit upgrades just seems.... well wrong...

Kouran should have been a Lord choice, simply on accounts of him being one of the finest generals in the warhammer world, while Tullaris should have at least been a hero seeing as he is the fore-most executioner, and both are noted to have led armies.

EDIT: Yayith 1800th posts.... I am totally da pwnzorz!!11!!!eleven!11!!1