this hydra of ours

[Dalamar]

Both diagrams are legal.

Second is the fair thing to do.

First is the tournament thing to do.

[Linkinhearts666]

Both diagrams are legal.

Second is the fair thing to do.

First is the tournament thing to do.

yup. Agreed. I guess it depends whether or not u want to win and every point counts ay? I guessfriendlies it really dusnt matter ;D (too much)

[Shrike]

I could be wrong... But either diagram... the maximum amount of models are in base contact, just the priority is the Hydra.

Err, count them up. In one diagram there's one more model in combat, so the diagram with the maximum number of models fighting is obviously the one with the most models fighting. The question is whether you need to maximise both sides or not. Lord Anathir explained that you do and why this is the case in a single line, but I couldn't manage it over several posts, so I doubt he's going to convince anyone

[Red...]

I'd be shocked if anyone ever has - or will - line up the hydra as displayed in the second picture, even against 25mm wide base units as shown.

I think I'd be run out of my gaming club for suggesting it, even with my own hydra!

Of course, tournaments are different, but still, I think that anyone who ever forces a DE player to line up the Hydra as H,B,B rather than B,H,B is being a bit petty, imo anyway (no offense meant to anyone...).

Anyway, back to the original topic thread. I go back and forth with myself about whether hydras are broken. In some games (usually those where my hydra ends up cowering in the woods with just 1 wound left) it feels like they are definitely not, but in others it feels like they definitely are ("sorry, my hydra ate your flank and then burned all your archers into dust and trampled your wizard")

Some of it really does depend on who you are playing. DEs, for example, can really only hit it with magic (which is easy for us to counter), Repeater Bolt Throwers (which are poor and expensive) or in combat vs charging dragon princes or white lions (which is both unlikely to happen - who is really going to let their hydra take a charge from a unit of heavy cavalry unless they absolutely have to? - and is very risky - if the hydra survives (yay regens) it can eat them for breakfast. Gunline armies really aren't going to be that bothered though.

[Loki]

The first picture is how I've always lined up my hydra and handlers. Perhaps its because I tend to move them in the game in a similar manner, with a handler on each side. It would seem awkward to move one the whole way around the side in order to put both handlers beside each other.

[Kaseliegth]

Right what happens when the hydra is in combat as in the 2nd picture and then get's charged in the flank by a ranked up unit.
Where do they get possisioned?
Against the beastmater or the hydra?

[Dalamar]

Against the beastmaster, and the charging unit only has the beastmaster as a target.

Hydra (unfortunately) doesn't have any specific rules for being flank charged and incomplete ranks as saurus/slann or skins/kroxigors do.

[Sulla]

Against the beastmaster, and the charging unit only has the beastmaster as a target.

Hydra (unfortunately) doesn't have any specific rules for being flank charged and incomplete ranks as saurus/slann or skins/kroxigors do.

Beastmasters.

[Dalamar]

Yes, wounds carry across the unit as the beastmasters are not characters or champions <.< I thought that's pretty obvious. (you're in contact with 1 beastmaster but if you do enough wounds you can kill both)

[Sulla]

... Just pointing it out for those less familiar with the hydra and how it works.

[Lord anathir]

Both diagrams are legal.

Second is the fair thing to do.

First is the tournament thing to do.

no, the first is illegal, the knights only have 4 models in base contact, while the correct 2nd diagram has 5 knights. The hydra player has to align his unit so that BOTH sides get maximum number of models in contact.

first diagram is illegal, and cheating frankly. The 'must alignt to get maximum number of models on both sides into combat' rule is one of the most basic ones. Its not optional or a matter of sportsmanship. Its a fundamental rule that MUST be followed to prevent dragon, chariot and whatever corner clipping whatever units. If you played 6th edition you know what I'm talking about.

[Linkinhearts666]

no, the first is illegal, the knights only have 4 models in base contact, while the correct 2nd diagram has 5 knights. The hydra player has to align his unit so that BOTH sides get maximum number of models in contact.

first diagram is illegal, and cheating frankly. The 'must alignt to get maximum number of models on both sides into combat' rule is one of the most basic ones. Its not optional or a matter of sportsmanship. Its a fundamental rule that MUST be followed to prevent dragon, chariot and whatever corner clipping whatever units. If you played 6th edition you know what I'm talking about.

awesome... lets totally put some gasoline on this debate x-x

[Thenick18]

I would have to agree, the first diagram can fit all 5 knights in contact so it should.

[Malberoth grieftide]

The Hydras i've faced havent been much of an issue, ive never let one reach my dwarven lines alive/with more than one wound. They arent so tough with only one head. Its a sad truth that people will continue to biatch about powerful creatures rather than do the sensible thing which is assess how to take it down. Im not overjoyed about this new hell-pit abomination, but i am looking forward to copping it in the face with a cannon- swings and roundabouts folks

[Saithis]

not everyone has cannons to shoot that stuff...

[Shrike]

...flaming cannons too, in the case of Dwarfs.