Hashishin loadouts

[T.D.]

I love Daeron's new "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" build. Can't do better, but just for fun:

Tenchu - Stealth Assassin

Assassin
Black Lotus or Manbane
Glittering Scale Armour
Seed of Rebirth
Potion of Foolhardiness

Oh My Khaine! - Terror bomb (to combo with new Druchii leadership bomb potential)

Assassin
Black Lotus
Mask of Eee!

The Trickster - portable OTS delivery system

Assassin
Other Tricksters Shard
Dark Venom
Glittering Scale Armour or Talisman of Endurance

One Shot - he aint comin' back...and that's the way he likes it.

Assassin
Potion of Strength
Black Lotus or Rending blade

Jet Lee - mini-Chuck

Assassin
Dark Venom or Black Lotus or Manbane
Potion of Strength
Talisman of Endurance or Glittering Scale Armour

Thunderball - portable Fire spell delivery system

Assassin
Repeater Handbow
Ruby Ring of Ruin
Dragonbane Gem or MR(1)

Eversor - throw him into Deathstars. Laugh.

Assassin
Sword of anti-heroes
Gamblers Armour or Talisman of Protection & Potion Foolhardiness

Eversor II - The Revenge!

Assassin
Sword of anti-heroes
Potion of Strength

Malekith's Paranoia - Magic users beware!

Assassin
spell-eating sword
spellshield or OTS or MR(1)

Le Tank - for holding up enemy combat characters

Assassin
Poison of your choice
Armour of Destiny

Le Scarlet Pimpernel - just because.

Assassin
Manbane
Cloak of Twilight

Ice Cold - again, just because.

Assassin
Chillblade

[HERO]

"Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" build.

What build is that?

[Melle]

"Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" build.

What build is that?

An Assassin build I might consider is...
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Assassin, AHW, Manbane, Black Dragon Egg.
He'd would wound as if he has S7, and have rerolls on 1's. 4 Attacks of it.

[Scyloc]

Assassins cannot use any magical armor, as they have no access to armors at all.

[Calisson]

Assassins cannot use any magical armor, as they have no access to armors at all.

Wrong.
Read again BRB p.500.
Only sorcerers are prevented to get magic armour.
So 'sass may well get one.

[Melle]

pretty sure there also is a reference of if a character cant use mundane version, magic version isnt allowed either

cant find it now, when i need it, of course

[Scyloc]

Only sorcerers are prevented to get magic armour.
So 'sass may well get one.

I believe you are right.

[Calisson]

pretty sure there also is a reference of if a character cant use mundane version, magic version isnt allowed either

cant find it now, when i need it, of course

BRB p. 121. "A character who is not entitled to wear an ordinary armour may not wear a magic armour or helmet..."
But that was 7th ed BRB.
There is nothing such in 8th ed BRB.

[Melle]

nope not that reference.
I never read 7th .
played 5th, 6th and now 8th.

could be a national faq or like you say, something heritage from 7th in my gaming group.

the better then, way easier/fun to build assas without that cripple;)

[T.D.]

An Assassin build I might consider is...
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Assassin, AHW, Manbane, Black Dragon Egg.
He'd would wound as if he has S7, and have rerolls on 1's. 4 Attacks of it.

That's the one; my favourite so far

Making Assassins these days is so much vanilla, as opposed to the smorgasbord of the last book. Bolt thrower assassins were a bit OTT, but I think I would prefer Sulla's idea of attack counters over these washed out pale shadows of their former selves.

But, the eternal war against our evil ursurping "high" elf kin rages on, and we will have to rely on the Naggarothi bulldog spirit that has allowed us to grow and prosper in adversity, and which sustained us through the long years of 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th edition...

Assassins vs Masters

Of the first commentaries on the new book, I take issue with the idea that Assassin and Masters are a "one or the other" choice, with Masters coming out on top due to cheapness and mundane armour options.

For me, they have different roles:

Master - Leadership and unit combat boost

Assassin - Stealth suicide mission

As with many of the choices in this new book, individually Assassins look flawed, but their strength lies in context of the entire army.

Master
- Ld 9
- T3 W2
- 50 pts MI
- mundane armour options
- out in the open

Assassin
- Ld x
- T3 W2
- 50 pts MI
- poisons
- Hidden, creating question in opponents mind
- Hidden, reducing early game shooting and magic risk (for both model and unit)

Assassin Role
Our lords and masters are now less equipped to take on the game's combat monsters - Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes, Vampire Lords, Chaos Lords, etc - head to head. So I see the Assassin as a "combo" model in assisting our Hags, Masters and Dreadlords with the tough nuts to crack.

The advantages of the Assassin over the Master in this role are (1) Hidden (2) Power (3) Expendability - no loss of Ld when he dies.

Power
- combination of poison (-Ld, +1tW, KB) with booster magic items (i.e. Potion Foolhardiness, Potion Toughness, Potion Strength, Black Dragon Egg)
- WS 9 vs WS 6

Durability
- Against a combat lord or artillery, mundane armour is probably going to be deleted, so the options for Assassins and Masters are equal here (4++ with no other magic items, or 5++, 6++ with other items), but Assassins are hidden until combat begins, and are harder to hit in h-t-h.
- WS 9 combos with glittering scales vs enemy lords moreso than on a Master

Synergy Options
- Adding one shot of 4 high strength attacks with toughness boost and breath weapon to boot
- Adding one shot of 4 high strength, KB attacks into a combat
- Adding OTS in to a combat
- Witch Elves with Cauldron for BloodshieldoK, FuryoK, StrengthoK, CoW, Witchbrew (and no danger from Witches)
- Executioners and Tullaris for +As
- Karibdyss (Ld reroll), BW Shrine (Ld -ve) and Sisters of Slaughter (-CR) for making his extra effect on a combat count for more.
- ditto Dark and some battle magicks

Are Assassins a choice for tournaments? Probably not. But they do add some spice to friendly games

[Calisson]

Add that 'sass poisons
- stack (regular poison + either forbidden poison)
- work on thrown weapon or RHB
- but do not work on magic weapons.

[Lysanthyr]

I thought I read somewhere on here that the Assassin's write up stated he wasn't allowed magic armour. I personally don't have the book yet, so I can't double check for sure, but he has never beenn allowed to take it before, why start now?

[Paricidas]

Something that should be considered is that the changed role of assassins will probably make it usefull (or necessary?) to equip them in a way that they Team up with the rest of the unit to achieve what they are made for: kill anything in a single turn.
My first guess would be:

1st assassin: the KB multiwound cloak, +1 to wound poison
2nd assassin: OTS, strengh potion, KB poison

Stick them in a cauldron unit and they should be able to deal some damage.

[Gerner]

Thanks T.D. for making this!

I have been wanting to create a topic like this, but didn't feel like I had enough to create one.

So far I have these builds:

Dragonbane

Assassin
Additional Hand Weapon + Manbane
Glittering Scales
Dragonbane Gem
Potion of Strength

The ability to charge any flaming unit to tank it for the rest of the battle is very nice addition to have. Together with Glittering Scales and Potion of Strength I feel he has some real potential.

Hidden Knight

Assassin
Additional Hand Weapon + Manbane
Armour of the Silvered Steel
Dragonbane or Luckstone or Potion of Fool Hardiness

Your opponent will be surprised. But the match up is super important.

Executioner

Assassin
Dark Venom
Sword of Strife
Enchanted Shield
Potion of Foolhardiness

6 attacks on the charge, 5 attacks normally. Go go - killing blow!

Trollbane

Assassin
Repeater Hand Bow + Manbane
Shield of Ptolos
Ruby Ring of Ruin

Keep out of combat, throw fireballs at flammable and regen units.


That is all I got for now.
I think the Assassin upon up for a lot of fun and viable builds. It might not be competition material.

[Colonel]

FYI regarding armor.. Pg500 brb states Wizards cannot have armor unless they can take mundane armor. No restriction that would apply to assassins.

Unfortunately potions don't work well with assassins as you have to use them at the beginning of a turn.. not too sneaky if you reveal at the beginning of a turn

[Gerner]

FYI regarding armor.. Pg500 brb states Wizards cannot have armor unless they can take mundane armor. No restriction that would apply to assassins.

Unfortunately potions don't work well with assassins as you have to use them at the beginning of a turn.. not too sneaky if you reveal at the beginning of a turn

Often, I either use it to scare my opponent away from a charge or you charge him alone out against a single character or a unit with a character he can survive from.

[MichaelMac]

I think this Assassin has a role at ~150pts.

The Trickster - portable OTS delivery system
Other Tricksters Shard
Dark Venom
Glittering Scales

Cheaper than the 213pt Master on Peg (Cloak, Lance, 1+ armor) and can be a real effective character killer, which the peg master isn't as good at. Peg master is more of the mage/war machine hunter, flank charger, march blocker, Monster Threatener)

My only real issue with Dark Venom is that Poison and re-rolls negates chances at Killing Blow. Its funny to be praying not to roll a 6 to hit
But how survivable is he... assuming he is easy to wound...

Against the character - WS 9 vs. WS 6 is hitting on 5's (w/ glittering scales). Your typical 3-4A high S character is going to hit 1 time so the assassin survives if you can get him in a challenge. However, you could decline and use their Rank-and-File attacks on him as well.

Against the Rank and File - They are probably hitting on 6's so they are going to need 10 attacks to hit him twice. Since he only touches 3 models an the best standard infantry have 2 attacks I don't think he dies in the first round to infantry.

Basically the rule for me would be...If the unit has a character with 4 attacks or less - ok to fight! It seems like the Glittering Scales Assassin can be counted on average, to see 2 rounds of combat. If you can string challenges together he could live as long as he can challenge.

The master in the same character killing missile situation would be easier to kill and loses his cloak abilities (which make him a character killer) after the first round.

[MichaelMac]

When you drink a potion at the start of the turn do you have to reveal the assassin? It seems like you don't. You can just say, my assassin drinks his potion. I don't think that triggers reveal because reveal is your choice at the movement or combat phases.

I can see a lot of games where there were multiple charges by my opponent where simply by drinking the potion (and not revealing) he wouldn't know where the Assassin is. But I guess in most of my lists there are 2 Infantry units that are usually near each other so he could make a 50-50 guess.

I think the assassin is a much better choice for an MSU list with lots of small units of infantry.

Still, I'm not getting why all the potion builds are good? I think that people will be able to figure out where the assassin is when you drink your potion based on the situation. If I have a sick charge lined up for my turn and you say, my assassin drinks his potion at the start of your turn then maybe I don't charge because I figure you have an assassin. If its your turn and you say my assassin drinks his potion and I declare a charge, I am more likely to flee because the unit might have the assassin. Either way, too easy for potion's to reveal the position of the assassin. Why are they good?

[MichaelMac]

Another question: could I cast, say, Savage Beast of Horrors (spells that target characters) on the Assassin while he is hidden? Or do you have to be revealed to be the target of a spell?

Technically if the unit is within 12" so is he. But he has to be targetable but the augment targeting rules don't seem to rule out targeting him. You could declare a charge, get in, then cast Wildform or Horrors or all the -1 to hit spells, then reveal him in the combat round. Legal?

[Calisson]

When not revealed, you cannot target the assassin: units not on the field have no influence on the game.
So, no savage Beast hidden 'sass.
If you reveal him after casting the spell, he does not benefit from the spell.

[Paricidas]

You will have to do it like every other army does it too (where "every" means skaven). If you want the assassin to effect the game, he must be on the table. As Long he is not there, he is not in game, he cannot drink potions and he cannot be targeted with spells, may it be the spells of the enemy or your own.

Therefor, if you want the assassin to do something Special, he must be revealed at the start of the turn.
The classical potion-assassin works this way:
a. the assassin is revealed
b. the assassin Drinks a potion
c. the carrier unit of the assassin issues a Charge.
d. the unit makes its charge roll and charges or the Charge Fails and the potion is wasted.

Potion assassins are good because assassins are generaly good for hunting down character models, with additional strengh they make quite the reliable charkillers. If you now reveal an assassin and drink a potion, the charged unit has two Options: hold and get attacked by a (better two) buffed up assassins and lose the character model(s) or flee. In case of a flight, the assassin Player can issue additional charges and will force another flight reaction, which will finaly result in the destruction of the whole unit and the characters, because you simply flight-charge them from the board.

[Zenith]

Add that 'sass poisons
- stack (regular poison + either forbidden poison)
- work on thrown weapon or RHB
- but do not work on magic weapons.

Does the poison also work on breath weapons used in CC?

[Dalamar]

No they do not. Breath weapons may not benefit from any other special rule (other than those listed for the breath weapon)

[T.D.]

Add that 'sass poisons
- stack (regular poison + either forbidden poison)
- work on thrown weapon or RHB
- but do not work on magic weapons.

Dalamar on another thread has brought up the point that RAW there is nothing to prevent 'Forbidden Poisons' stacking with magic weapon effects.

Thoughts?

[Dalamar]

There's nothing preventing forbidden poisons from working with magic weapons.
Magic Weapons specifically stop Poisoned Attacks