Askador wrote:Btw: I usualy got an Lord in the Witches block also so i dont have to fear any Skullcrushers or Knights. Sea Dragon cloak, Obsidian Blade, +2 Schield, Dawnstone, the other Tricksters Shard and heavy armor.
Yes he has to endure the attackes from the witches. But with armor 1+ and armor reroll its not a big deal. Be he is great against enemy Heroes or armored units. Can reroll Hits and all wounds and the enemy has no Armor and has to reroll Saves.
A problem is that WE must reroll ward saves as well. Too bad when the COB provides 5++ to WE. Even before melee, when the unit receives template attacks and spell attacks. For that reason, the dreadlord must go in an angle of the unit, where he is in contact with only 3 WE (and he must avoid being in contact with the COB).
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Askador wrote: Against Ogres it can be cool. But last game i had 3 Ogre Cannons against me all 3 shooting at the Cauldron. Nothing much i can do against it.
How the heck did he take 3 of the same rare choice? If you were playing with Grand Armies...take two CoB.
Askador wrote:Btw: I usualy got an Lord in the Witches block also so i dont have to fear any Skullcrushers or Knights. Sea Dragon cloak, Obsidian Blade, +2 Schield, Dawnstone, the other Tricksters Shard and heavy armor.
Yes he has to endure the attackes from the witches. But with armor 1+ and armor reroll its not a big deal. Be he is great against enemy Heroes or armored units. Can reroll Hits and all wounds and the enemy has no Armor and has to reroll Saves.
A problem is that WE must reroll ward saves as well. Too bad when the COB provides 5++ to WE. Even before melee, when the unit receives template attacks and spell attacks. For that reason, the dreadlord must go in an angle of the unit, where he is in contact with only 3 WE (and he must avoid being in contact with the COB).
Thats true.he is on the corner of the unit oc.
Gildean: That was in a 3000 point game. But in a 2500 point game it still 2 Cannons. not much better.
Today I charged a horde of Saurus through a forest.
Rolled a 1 on Dangerous Terrain.
Rolled a 1 on Ward Save.
Rolled a 6 on Wounds.
So, Cauldron of Blood slams into a tree and destroys itself. The Death Hag gets thrown from the cauldron and spears the Saurus BSB. The Witch Elves go into a frenzy and gut the Slaan. 20 more Saurus fall, leaving only 19 left (who actually manage to do 12 wounds).
The unit, not unsettled in the slightest, makes its insane courage check (the third one that game), but the witches finish them off the next turn.
So, cauldron didn't do anything that game, but witches won anyway.
Ashes and Diamons,
Foe and Friend,
We are all equal,
In the End.
Askador wrote: Gildean: That was in a 3000 point game. But in a 2500 point game it still 2 Cannons. not much better.
As I said, I would field two cauldrons in a 3000 point game.
He would have shot both of them with 3 cannons i guess. I think about fieling 2 Hydras or Kharibdys to catch the cannon balls or something. I tryed to shield the CoB with my Twilight Mantle Kommander once but he managed to to make the ball jump over him and still hit the CoB.
Askador wrote: Gildean: That was in a 3000 point game. But in a 2500 point game it still 2 Cannons. not much better.
As I said, I would field two cauldrons in a 3000 point game.
He would have shot both of them with 3 cannons i guess. I think about fieling 2 Hydras or Kharibdys to catch the cannon balls or something. I tryed to shield the CoB with my Twilight Mantle Kommander once but he managed to to make the ball jump over him and still hit the CoB.
I hate Cannons..
Nah...played my son with his two Ironblasters today against my WoC army. He couldn't even take out a single Gorebeast Chariot before I was in his grill.
The Cauldron is a regular part of my army. I run it with Witchbrew and 30 WE. I am usually pretty successful with it but I have lost to both Tomb Kings and Empire. Tomb Kings killed everything but the WE and Empire used redirecting very effectively.
I played an Empire player who shot the COB and managed to redirect the WE and hit it in both flanks. The unit died hard but held up a big part of his army for two turns while the Black Guard waded through a unit of Knights with Kurt Heilborg and Karl Franz leading them. When that was over there was one lone Black Guard still standing. The COB with WE is a deadly unit but it can be delt with by a smart opponent.
I play against a Vampire Counts army regularly and he has used several counters. Magic, tooled up Vampire lord, redirecting with some success. One of his redirecting attempts failed spectacularly with the Dire Wolves being destroyed on contact and the WE overrunning into another unit destroying it and overrunning again to hit a third unit.
CoB and WE is a very strong unit but there are counters to it. So no it is not overpowered.
I have seen several comments about artillery targeting the CoB and one response claiming that the CoB cannot be targeted if it is in a unit, that in that case the unit must be targeted. Which is correct?
phlewis wrote:I have seen several comments about artillery targeting the CoB and one response claiming that the CoB cannot be targeted if it is in a unit, that in that case the unit must be targeted. Which is correct?
The CoB can be targeted with artillery that has a template attack (like a cannon or a stonethrower). If it uses a missile like attack (like a bolt thrower or a hellblaster), you can't pick it out.
Ashes and Diamons,
Foe and Friend,
We are all equal,
In the End.
a few days ago, my CoB + 29 witches with razor banner faced off against Festus in a horde of mark of nurgle chaos warriors. I had them debuffed with soulblight and he had a -1 T nurgle spell on me. My witches only killed 6 nurgle warriors :O In return he killed 8 from me and ran med down lol. Math wise I should probably have killed like 1 or 2 more but whatever, it wasn't a good matchup for me. One thing I should have done was to reform wider(like 14 wide) to get more attacks in, lesson learned
islands wrote:a few days ago, my CoB + 29 witches with razor banner faced off against Festus in a horde of mark of nurgle chaos warriors. I had them debuffed with soulblight and he had a -1 T nurgle spell on me. My witches only killed 6 nurgle warriors :O In return he killed 8 from me and ran med down lol. Math wise I should probably have killed like 1 or 2 more but whatever, it wasn't a good matchup for me. One thing I should have done was to reform wider(like 14 wide) to get more attacks in, lesson learned
Math wise you should have done significantly more than 7-8 wounds. The Hag should have gotten in more than 3 wounds just by herself. I didn't feel like running the rest of the math but seeing 3 wounds from just the hag says you should have done a ton more wounds. Though, I'm assuming Halberd or Two Hand Weapons here on the Chaos Warriors since those are the most likely builds. If they had HW/S I'd have to see the math again.
Ashes and Diamons,
Foe and Friend,
We are all equal,
In the End.
islands wrote:a few days ago, my CoB + 29 witches with razor banner faced off against Festus in a horde of mark of nurgle chaos warriors. I had them debuffed with soulblight and he had a -1 T nurgle spell on me. My witches only killed 6 nurgle warriors :O In return he killed 8 from me and ran med down lol. Math wise I should probably have killed like 1 or 2 more but whatever, it wasn't a good matchup for me. One thing I should have done was to reform wider(like 14 wide) to get more attacks in, lesson learned
Math wise you should have done significantly more than 7-8 wounds. The Hag should have gotten in more than 3 wounds just by herself. I didn't feel like running the rest of the math but seeing 3 wounds from just the hag says you should have done a ton more wounds. Though, I'm assuming Halberd or Two Hand Weapons here on the Chaos Warriors since those are the most likely builds. If they had HW/S I'd have to see the math again.
He used HW/S and remember all the buffs Festus give to his unit.
Datalink7 wrote:Today I charged a horde of Saurus through a forest.
Rolled a 1 on Dangerous Terrain.
Rolled a 1 on Ward Save.
Rolled a 6 on Wounds.
had the same badluck a few games ago... seriously considering scultping a tree on the base in front of it... or a tree in a wheel, or something similar...
* my group plays with the RAW rules for the cauldron, so I put it in a corsair unit with handbows to get a round of shooting in prior to being charged and then another standing and shooting. Never got to shoot as I'd rather charge the targets I had in front of me instead of shoot. The unit slaughtered everything in its path and overran, which pulled it out my battle line a bit farther than expected. It was flanked by infantry with ranks and lost to CR and was run down.
* next game the cauldron was with witches and charged into a HE silver helm bus with BOTWD BSB. I got mind razor off and everything was red mist. The gals lost 2 or 3 models in return and again had to overrun from my battle line. They connected with a frost heart and were flanked by Phoenix guard the next turn. My buff went away to drain magic and my unit fled and was cut down due to CR again.
CR seems to be a problem. Easy to flank that horde unit with infantry that can negate my own ranks and potential steadfast. I tried to cover my flanks but the overrun changed that; my support units couldn't keep up, and since my WE unit was aimed at his center, my opponent had support units of his own to flank with.
islands wrote:a few days ago, my CoB + 29 witches with razor banner faced off against Festus in a horde of mark of nurgle chaos warriors. I had them debuffed with soulblight and he had a -1 T nurgle spell on me. My witches only killed 6 nurgle warriors :O In return he killed 8 from me and ran med down lol. Math wise I should probably have killed like 1 or 2 more but whatever, it wasn't a good matchup for me. One thing I should have done was to reform wider(like 14 wide) to get more attacks in, lesson learned
Math wise you should have done significantly more than 7-8 wounds. The Hag should have gotten in more than 3 wounds just by herself. I didn't feel like running the rest of the math but seeing 3 wounds from just the hag says you should have done a ton more wounds. Though, I'm assuming Halberd or Two Hand Weapons here on the Chaos Warriors since those are the most likely builds. If they had HW/S I'd have to see the math again.
He used HW/S and remember all the buffs Festus give to his unit.
Only regeneration 5+ that really matters no. Still 3+ save and 5+ regen so without cauldron you shuld have erased 10 models from him straight away with cauldron it would have been more like 13~15 somewhere (little too tired to do that math right now)
if you had improved frenzy it would up with another 1~2 wounds on top of that
and all this is actually discounting any impact hits as well
edit: nevermind, forgot the -1 to hit from mark of nurgle also counter # attacks wrong - mark of nurgle still only reduces it with around 20% or so and you should have more attacks than I listed anyhows
Last edited by Liquidedust on Tue Jan 07, 2014 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stats since I started playing again in 2013 W/L/D Total: 16/21/1 vs. Demons: 0/2/0 vs. Dwarfs: 1/2/0 vs. Empire: 2/4/0 vs. High Elves: 0/4/0 vs. Lizardmen: 3/0/0 vs. Orcs & Goblins: 3/0/1 vs. Ogres: 1/0/0 vs. Skaven: 4/4/0 vs. Tomb Kings: 0/1/0 vs. Warriors of Chaos: 0/3/0 vs. Wood Elves: 2/1/0
mypantsarefree13 wrote:CR seems to be a problem. Easy to flank that horde unit with infantry that can negate my own ranks and potential steadfast. I tried to cover my flanks but the overrun changed that; my support units couldn't keep up, and since my WE unit was aimed at his center, my opponent had support units of his own to flank with.
-mypantsarefree13
2 solution imho.
#1 ; Crown of command. Yes, it sound stupid, but a 1+ Master with Crown of Command can fix just about any '"mistake" with overrun.
#2 ; another horde guarding the flanks and/or monsters.
mypantsarefree13 wrote:CR seems to be a problem. Easy to flank that horde unit with infantry that can negate my own ranks and potential steadfast. I tried to cover my flanks but the overrun changed that; my support units couldn't keep up, and since my WE unit was aimed at his center, my opponent had support units of his own to flank with.
-mypantsarefree13
2 solution imho.
#1 ; Crown of command. Yes, it sound stupid, but a 1+ Master with Crown of Command can fix just about any '"mistake" with overrun.
#2 ; another horde guarding the flanks and/or monsters.
Thanks, I hadn't thought of those. Appreciated, fellow druchii!
I've been running my Had with the Sword of Anti-Heroes. She becomes an excellent anti-armor character with it as most heavily armored blocks of infantry or cavalry have a character or two in them. Even with one character in the unit she is facing coupled with Witch brew she has 6 attacks at strength 5. Rerolling all failed to wound rolls and -2 Armor (-3 with Razor Standard on the unit). That adds up quickly.
Archamedius wrote:I've been running my Had with the Sword of Anti-Heroes. She becomes an excellent anti-armor character with it as most heavily armored blocks of infantry or cavalry have a character or two in them. Even with one character in the unit she is facing coupled with Witch brew she has 6 attacks at strength 5. Rerolling all failed to wound rolls and -2 Armor (-3 with Razor Standard on the unit). That adds up quickly.
That sword was the one I used the first time I chose to try the Two Towers list. It does work well. I will need to add the Razor Standard though. Didn't have that.
In three battles, I've seen it go GREAT (Witch Elves destroyed Swordmasters with ease), and very poorly (Executioners got nerfed to S2- S4 with Great Weapons- then effortlessly killed by Chaos Warriors). I was hoping the Frenzy & high Strength would help fight Chaos, but I utterly crapped the bed with the dice, they broke (slaying the Death Hag BSB on the Cauldron), and failed their Rally Test in the last phase of the game. At least I won most of the other battles of the game and came out on top.
Next time, I'll probably not make the Hag a BSB (I now finally have another model for that), as well as putting a Crown of Command on her to protect from that "one bad turn".
I was thinking the Obsidian Blade would be a good idea for the COB hag.. the S4 doesn't matter as much with the re-rolls to wound, and it adds anti-armor. Anyone run this?
Colonel wrote:I was thinking the Obsidian Blade would be a good idea for the COB hag.. the S4 doesn't matter as much with the re-rolls to wound, and it adds anti-armor. Anyone run this?
i do.
usually, when 1+ ram into my witches, she kills 4-5, then dies.
after that, i'm lucky if the rest of the unit manage to get more than 1 or 2 wound through.
Colonel wrote:I was thinking the Obsidian Blade would be a good idea for the COB hag.. the S4 doesn't matter as much with the re-rolls to wound, and it adds anti-armor. Anyone run this?
I usualy just give her Warcry and leave her naked. She is main target against alot of players and expensive enaugh.
On side 2 you can see my Dreadlord i run with the witch elves. He has the Obsidian blade and needs it. And dont dies that easy.
