Scylocs deeper look into the use of the Bloodwrack Shrine

[Thraundil]

^^ Blackguard with +1 from banner, and +1 from shrine gives an effective stubborn 11ld. Is that even legal?

No. Noone can have a leadership higher than 10.

[Dalamar]

No, stats are capped at 10 unless they're random (our manticores can get up to 12 attacks with frenzy, cauldron buff and 2d3 extra attacks)

[marcopollo]

I thought so. But, it makes it pretty damn easy to have ld 10 in our army on our core. And that the crown of command can go on a mostly untouchable character (with the shrines and 5 column wide unit) is pretty good. Talk about a freight train.

[Colonel]

I have a game soon vs chariot heavy WOC.. it just occurred to me that I can always charge my shrine out of my unit and it should be able to take on about any warrior chariot. They may fail the fear test and regardless are unlikely to do more wounds on T6 than they take, and will be testing with an additional -1 to hold. Maybe not point effective, but it might catch him off guard as it is swift stride and coming out of a unit with movement banner.

[Vietnow]

Colonel, I recently used this EXACT strategy, only I charged his unkillable BSB, who was solo. Shroud was up, only reason I attempted this. He was at Ld6 with no rerolls. He causes fear, so was immune to terror, but failed his fear test. He did no wounds, but I hit his flank. (charging with the whole unit was not an option, being a horde of execs they would have clipped something else) I won combat by 1, causing him to test break on a 4. Ld 8 -1shroud -1shrine -1failed fear, lost combat by 1. He broke, and instantly died.

I was extremely happy. This strategy has great synergy with shroud.

His arrogance was also a prime reason this happened. He really does feel this guy is unkillable.

[T.D.]

@ Colonel + Vietnow

NICE.

[Gidean]

I have a game soon vs chariot heavy WOC.. it just occurred to me that I can always charge my shrine out of my unit and it should be able to take on about any warrior chariot. They may fail the fear test and regardless are unlikely to do more wounds on T6 than they take, and will be testing with an additional -1 to hold. Maybe not point effective, but it might catch him off guard as it is swift stride and coming out of a unit with movement banner.

Nice idea if you can set it up. But even with the movement banner you are talking movement 6 versus the WoC movement 8. I think they will get the charge off more often than not.

[Norse_malekith]

Agree with @Gidean.

@Vietnow what do you mean shroud was up? You must declare charge before magic phase, with the risk you wont Get it through...

[Underway]

^^ Blackguard with +1 from banner, and +1 from shrine gives an effective stubborn 11ld. Is that even legal?

10 is the max any stat can be. So no. Not legal.

[Clockwork]

Agree with @Gidean.

@Vietnow what do you mean shroud was up? You must declare charge before magic phase, with the risk you wont Get it through...

Its not hugely risky without the Shroud. The unkillable BSB doesn't have enough attacks to kill the Shrine outright, doing at best 1-2 depending on equipment. That maeans that the Shrine only needs to do one wound through impact hits, handlers, Medusa and AYG to win or tie. Its not hugely unreasonable, and if the WoC player blocks Shroud then dropping Word or Soulblight should swing things in your favour.

[Vietnow]

The main issue is winning the combat. The BSB generally has a GW for 4 attacks at S7 plus the mount is S5.

His DP was dead, he had no other casters, putting up shroud wasn't much of a concern. He'd need double 6's to dispell most likely. My 6 D6 +5 vs his D6, if the winds even gave him 6. If I remember correctly the winds rolls were something like 3 and 4, giving me 7 and him 4 6 D6 +5 almost always beats 4D6 +0. So in my particular case, I wasn't worried about not having shroud. I realize this wasn't evident in my original post, apologies. But hey, don't throw 6 dice at some stupid nurgle vortex on turn two with your 500pt DP. If he would have just put my shrine/bg unit into combat instead, he would have likely won the game.

If I'm being honest with myself, I'd attempt this anyways provided both WoP and shroud were in my aresenal. I'd lead with WoP, hoping for shroud. If he fails the fear test, likely on a 6 without reroll, that takes him to a 5 already. This is what happened and he wiffed attacks. No wounds on either side, I charged +flank, he had a bsb. Test on 4 stupid bsb. I really hate ward saves. The tzeentch trick and the 3+ PG really bother me.

[Colonel]

Last night I took a bloodwrack shrine in 34 corsairs with 2 level 2 casters in it (in 2nd rank).. VS WoC, threw it in front of 9 chaos knights with BSB. I took little damage first round of combat, cast Miasma on the knights and used smoke and mirrors to swap in my dreadlord for challenges. They slowly all died to shrine initiative tests and the dreadlord.

[marcopollo]

Last night I took a bloodwrack shrine in 34 corsairs with 2 level 2 casters in it (in 2nd rank).. VS WoC, threw it in front of 9 chaos knights with BSB. I took little damage first round of combat, cast Miasma on the knights and used smoke and mirrors to swap in my dreadlord for challenges. They slowly all died to shrine initiative tests and the dreadlord.

Nice move. I am planning on swapping out my lv 4 life for 2 level 2's (life and shadow -- for the lore attributes). But how did you swap the general into a fighting position if the shadow mage was in the back ranks. The solution to this is what is I can't figure out how to do yet. If your mages are in the 2nd rank, your unit should be 5 wide with only the std and mus in the front. Do you combat reform?

[Dalamar]

After you swap a character, the dreadlord can Make Way into a fighting rank when close combat phase comes around and issue challenges (or accept them without first moving into the fighting rank)

[Colonel]

I stayed in the second rank and issued a challenge, he had to accept with BSB if he didnt accept with unit champ.

[Gidean]

I stayed in the second rank and issued a challenge, he had to accept with BSB if he didnt accept with unit champ.

Thought you had to 'make way' to a fighting rank before you could issue challenges?

[Dalamar]

Yes, you have to be in base contact with an enemy (any enemy) to issue challenges. You don't have to be to accept them

You can also Make Way just before issuing any challenges so the point really is moot.