[TOW] Monster handlers rule clarification ?

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Poldorak
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[TOW] Monster handlers rule clarification ?

Post by Poldorak »

Hello all,
I can't find an absolue answer to how to apply the wounds with the Monster handler rule :badh:

The rule states that in combat, on a Roll of 5+ one of the handlers suffers the unsaved wound. Okay
None or the handlers have a wound characteristic, be it for the Hydra, Kharibdyss or ApoCannon.
The split profile rule would mean that the wound characteristic of the monster include those of the handlers (that's my main adversary point of view).
By comparing the profiles with previous editions, the monsters would have been seriously nerfed and the Hydra's remaining wounds rules would be ridiculous (it has 5 heads)
To my mind, the MH rule would mean that each handler have a "hidden" wound characteristic not included in the 5 wounds the Monster has. (And that it is hidden maybe to not jeopardize the unit strength balance)

But to convince my adversary I need something else that assumption, does any of you may help me, please?

Thank you by advance
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Daeron
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Re: [TOW] Monster handlers rule clarification ?

Post by Daeron »

Hello and welcome

I hadn't caught that problem in the rules. It does feel like an omission on the wounds of the handlers. Judging by the rules of handlers, one would expect that a handler could be wounded and/or killed. Or removed from play.
But it doesn't really have any rules for this, or for what happens if they get removed.

As for the split profile, it has little meaning by itself. The section of behemoths only provides clarity for the case where it is used as a mount. It doesn't apply any other rules other than acknowledge the different profiles.

But since the handlers also have no toughness or armour, or even a troop type, it seems sensible that it is treated a single model.

So it would seem there are two ways to go:
  • Treat it a bit like a chariot. It has 5 Wounds for the whole thing. The attacks of the handlers are always added. when the handlers lose a wound, it is as if the hydra loses a wound. The 5+ roll seems to be ignored, but no clarity is given how to resolve it anyhow. This means that the hydra has fewer wounds, but on the other hand always has more attacks and leadership. If your opponent is going to assume they share wounds, then they also share Leadership and attacks can't be removed since there is no model to remove.
  • Treat it a bit like a war machine, where the crew can be removed individually. This feels more natural, but this implies we're injecting the "1 wound" for the handlers. We're making an assumption here. It also begs the question, what if all the handlers are dead? Does it continue without handlers? (I think it would)
Option 1 ignores an aspect of 1 rule, option 2 assumes a rule that isn't there.

As for their strength, it's difficult to say. A Kharibdys was included in a Dark Elf list that got 2nd place in a GT recently. I think they are okay.
At the base, the hydra has 9 attacks, which isn't small. And with a high beastmaster, that can go up.
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Poldorak
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Re: [TOW] Monster handlers rule clarification ?

Post by Poldorak »

Hello,

Thank you for your welcoming and your answer

Indeed, we are stuck in the middle of several rules : chariot, war machine, behemoth and even beast handlers from Lizardmen
The former shall be the closest, with the differences that the Salamander/Razordon is too small to hide behind during shooting phase (it is not a large target) and that the skinks have separate wounds
As you wrote, the chariot and behemoth types would mean it is a single model and it can't be separate.
And the War machine type would mean we have some 3 wounds Monsters, and a 2 wounds Apocalypse Cannon (a bit squishy, right?)

I don't complain as the whole units are cool with superb minis, but I feel like something is wrong...

The handlers have to be removed from okay if the the monster dies. I undertand it as the monster remains if its handlers die, losing leadership and attacks

Concerning regeneration, (my) logic is that the handlers don't benefit from it, but, unless I am mistaken, the correct way to apply the rules is :
Hit > wound > Armor > regen > MHandlers rule
Am I right ?
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