Based ona speclaion thread I started on the Empire Fan forum link below this, what are our thoughts on what they have.
https://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php
And the thread itself
https://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/i ... ic=56352.0
Dreadlords and Masters: Stat wise I got what I was expecting. I am surprised by how permissive the new magic item rules for battel standard bearers are. Before you could have magic gear or a magic banner, but now you can have your 50 point allotment and any price magic banner.
THe sea dragon cloak is only an extra layer of protection against range units, so right now the better plate armor option (unless i put my guy on foot) is looking good for both while mounted. My Main just has it as decore for now.
As for the rules. Eternal Hatred and Hatred of High Elves checks (before it was Malus, Malekith, and Black Guard, I guess all the lords get it now)
If I have a disapointment, its the Master no longer can take a manticore as a mount.
Murderous means when they have 1, just 1, none magic hand weapon they reroll nat 1s to wound. This is a army wide rule, and I like the old version better when it was nat 1's to wound regardless of weapon. Hope this gets fixed if we get a proper book.
Strike First on a Lord sounds good. Its not all units, but when you are at the top of Dark Elf society everyone wants you dead, so it makes sense they hit hard and fast.
Have not read all the spell lores yet, but battle magic and daemonology are a solid, and i have mxed feelings on Dark Magic. Will have to look up Illations and elementalism more for details. I do like the two army spells though.
Elvin Reflexes (+1 initative on first combat), Hekarti's Blessing (can reroll one failed spell in the game), Lore of Naggaroth, Murderous, Eternal Hatred and Hatred of High Elves.
States are largely what I expected save for the extra attack on the supreme sorceress (I wonder if high elves get that...I haven't gotten my army books I preordered in yet). With the exception of the Supreme sorceress which has gone up by 10 ponts I think, every one else has gone down in price. So looking good.
Lore of Naggaroth spells: Cursing word is new name but feels like an old spell, and Black Horror was a roll of 6 on most older DE lores for a reason.
Cursing Word: Hex that remains in play that reduces either WS or BS by 1. Make sure there are no other hexes you like on the unit, as it makes them expire the moment it is cast on them.
Black Horror: Magical Vortex on a Large blast template, dangerous terrain, 2d6 random movement in a random direction in the start of turn phase. Every Enemy Unit (says enemy so maybe friendlies are immune) that moves though it or it moves over must make D6 strength Saves, and loose a wound for every failure. I already see this being fun.
No Fleetmaster or rules for it, so guesing that model will be a Dreadlord or Master for game purposes.
High BEastmaster is about the price of a Noble, and like previously must be mounted (scourge runner chariot or manticor). Can have spear, whips which I think allow you to attack in extra ranks, repeating crossbow, shield, heavy armor or keep their light armor, sea dragon cloaks and magic items up to 75 points. Like a Master but slightly better. Same specual rules as the master save for the Goad beast which is done to a monster in the command phase in their command range, which can be their mount. Until the end of the turn, they gain +D3 to their attacks, which will be fun with mantis, hydras, or the K beast.
Death Hags: I have a few Drukari Sucubus to be used as them, and I might get that new glatiatrix with the whip in the Daughters of Kkain to be one. Sadly no lord choice options.
About what I expected, no longer a BSB option. Have loner so can only join other witch elves or the sistes of battle. Can be on a cauldron of blood (more detail on that later). All the Dreadlord Rules, plus frenzy, poison attacks, and instead of hating just high elves they hate EVERYONE.
They can take Cry of War (-1 to enemy leadership while they are within her comand range and not fleeing, and considering her couldron has terror not bad. Also considering her front rank of witch elves will lay down the attacks, yeah this is going to be fun.)
Rune of Khaine: They gain an Extra Attacks of D3.
Witch Brew: They, their mount, and their unit can never loose frenzy.
Assassins: Wish they could get some of the gifts of khaine as well, but their poisons work well enough. Lower LD, Hate Everyone Eternal Hatred, Immune to psychology, murderous, and first strike. They also have hidden meaning they can be secretly deployed in any friendly infantry unit excluding harpies (but can be in Witch Elves, you tell me how he's hiding) if they have a starting unit strength of 10 or more. Can be reveaed at any srat of turn subphase or any combat phase. If his unit is destroyed or flees off the board before he can be revealed, he is considered a loss too. So keep track of the unit they are in. They cannot be the army general.
They can take an extra hand weapon or handbow
And they have options for the following poisons:
Black Lotus: Each unsaved wound inflicted by this charecter deals to a target gives it a -1 to its LD (I am guess its stackable). I tink this will be better for more monster charecters like Ogres or riding a monster.
Dark Venom: Killing blow, my old stand by.
Manbanse: Always wounds ona 4+, not bat. Not bad at all.
Wish they could take both mundane weapon options, and i miss some of the options like rending stars from back in the day. That said, I can already see a monster hunting build and a duelist build.
Mounts: it seems like equipment, mounts get one pricing instead of lordly and hero pricing before, so this makes things earier. Also assume it has Swift Stride unless I say otherwise.
Dark Steed: About what I was expecting, just a slightly faster pony at Movement 9 and Initiative 4. It grants its rider Fast Cavalry rules.
Coldones: My babies. My Murder raptors and Battle Cows. They have a movement of 7, and suffer stupidity but they have elvin riders so won't be too much of a problem. They also cause fear, thick skin (1) so bonus to armor, 2 attacks, +1 to your rider's toughness, Armor bane 1, and first charge.
Dark Pegasus: Forget the noble steeds of Brettonia, this is a murder pony. also cheaper, they were 50 points before. Being monstrous, they give their rider +1 wound but not toughness. A decent combat mount at S4, I4, 3 attacks. If they are ever grounded for whatever reason (like that brettonian magic horn that was leaked months ago) they still have a move on 8.
Other special rules this pony has to offer is armor bane 1 only it has, Counter charge, first charge, and a fly speed of 10. Perfect for hyper mobile nobles on the cheap or spellcaster wanting a better angle on her spells.
The Cauldron of Khaine is a chariot but it also has the dragged along rule. 4 up armor ,Close order, Elvin Reflexes, Hatred everyone, frenzy, D6+1 impact hits, Large Target, Magic Resistance -1, poison attacks, and terror.
It also has a boundspell (level 2). The spirit of Khaine spell is an Enchantment that targets the user, high coast, but any death hag, sister of slaughte, or witch elf unit within the command range gains one of the following: Furious Charge, Cleaving Blow (works like killing blow, nat 6's to wound ignore armor and regeneration on infantry, heavy infantry, warbeasts, light cavalry, and heavycavalry). No monsterous, monster or chariots can be effected and an auto wound ignores this ability.
Overal not bad. If you are running witch elves or the Sisters of SLaughter, this would be a good unit and if you are comeing in from AoS with Daughters of Khain, you probably already have a few. I know as soon As I fix my Couldron up, I will be doing that with my Sisters of Slaughter. Now that I am going over this again, I think it sucks the Executioners can't get this, so if you wanted to do a cult of khaine themed army, they get no blessings.
Manticore: About 20 points cheaper, a good brawler that grants the riders +1 toughness and +4 wounds (i am really likening this). It does have a Scaly Skin heavy armor. Fly of 9, large target, D3 stomps, Terror, and the willful beast rule is what I thought would still be around : Start Turn Sub Phase, it needs to pass an LD test or become subject to frenzy until the next friendly start of turn subphase. This gives it a bit of a flavorful wildcard flavor. Still useing the rider's LD so chances are it will pass, but everyone has that time the dice gods like to mess with you.
THe one area i think is weak is the 15point upgrade of venomous tail. One of your attacks must be made with this, which is poisoned and has first strike. Give its strength, its good, but it lacks the -2 AP of the others claw attacks. Only striking at Initiative 10 is good. I also miss the killing blow rule.
Black Dragon: More than I expected, especially with the wound and toughness increase to the rider (guess they truly are one mount now). Also 20 points cheaper than last edition.
The melee attacks are impressive. 5 regular ones of the claws at -2 AP. One with the map lacks armor pircing, but makes up with Armor Bane 2 and Multiple wounds 2. So perfect for duels and fighting other monsters.
Its scales count as having full plate, has hatred of high elves, large target, D6 stomps, and terror. Strength 7 is stronger than I expected. Its attack
Noxious breath works about as well, maybe better than last time. Until your next Start of Turn Subphase, any unit that takes a wound from thisS4 Breath attack gets -1 to their WS as they deal with the mustard gas attack. Oh, and no armor.
The dragon is back and knows how to rock and roll!
Overall the only thing I am disappointed in slightly is the Manticore, and thats only slightly. I was hoping to get what High Elves and Wood Elves are Getting, but maybe in the next couple of years if DE prove popular enough.
What are your thoughts, and until next time: Hail Khain the Bloody Handed!
A look at the Dark Elves 2024 PDF
Moderators: Layne, The Dread Knights
A look at the Dark Elves 2024 PDF
Who needs sanity? I have a Hydra
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Angelizdark
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Re: A look at the Dark Elves 2024 PDF
Beastmaster is a a Dreadlord for the price of a Noble!
I agree on the Manticore, why pay more for losing -2 ap.
Unfortunately, no more Noble on a Dark Pegasus. Was my favourite unit before
I agree on the Manticore, why pay more for losing -2 ap.
Unfortunately, no more Noble on a Dark Pegasus. Was my favourite unit before
Re: A look at the Dark Elves 2024 PDF
Thanks for your analysis.
I hope you can spend some more of your time on units, changes from previous editions, and their effectiveness in the TOW meta.
I hope you can spend some more of your time on units, changes from previous editions, and their effectiveness in the TOW meta.
... and Justice for all!!!
.... and enthusiast member of the league of extraordinary druchii gentlemen
.... and enthusiast member of the league of extraordinary druchii gentlemen
Re: A look at the Dark Elves 2024 PDF
Been a while. If you want the units, lets look at the core.
Warriors and repeater Crosssbowmen. Part of the city guard, these will probably some of the the most common units in the game for DE players.
Warriors come Light Armor, sheilds, hand weapon and as is a unit of 10 will set you back 80 points. Repeater Crossbow men (X-Bows for short from here on out) have hand weapons and repeater crossbows which are a S3 range weapon with a 24 inch range and 2x attacks. What they lack in power like a traditional crossbow, they make up for in numbers. They still have armor bane so a wound on a 6 means they go through a layer of armor. A unit of 10 sets you back 110 points
Both units have close order, Elvin Reflexes (+1 to initiative on first round of combat), Hatred of High Elves, and Martial Prowess.
Warriors can have spears for an extra point, so its a choice between martial prowess or more attacks. I can see units of 25 for swordsmen or units 6 to 7 wide and 4 to 5 for spearmen.
Crossbowmen can take a sheild for another point for shields. I can see several small units of 10 or go bigger an do a unit of 20. Either way its probably going to be gun line time again as only one rank can attack. I'll have a second rank for rank bonus, but readdress if I think I am going into CC, otherwise I am trying to get as many hits in.
Both units full command is 15 points with lordlings in charge of warriors getting +1 attack and crossbowmn get 1 higher BS.
For every 1000 points you have one of these units can be veterans and or take a magic banner.
I miss the pissing contest between dread spears bleackswords, and Dark Shards but otherwise this is great so far.
Corsairs remain largely the same, but when it come to the Sea Dragon Cloak: My beautiful, precious boy, what have they done to you?
A unit of 10 sets you back 110 points. They come with Hand bows (Repeater crossbow pistoles) or an extra hand weapon. Not completely sold on the hand bows per say, but I did always like the duel wielding. They have light armor, and the seadragon cloaks only add another layer of armor against range attacks that are not magical in nature. More balance then turning them into a 4+ AC unit,but now in CC they only get 1 layr of armor. They only a had a 1/3 chance of saving before, but its better than a 6+ any day.
A full command is another 18 points. The Reaver cannot take a brace of handbows, but the banner can havve 50 points of magic items.
Besides Hatred and Elvin Reflexes which is practically army wide, they are an open order unit that can move through cover. This means they have more maneuverability, and even go through some difficult terrain with little to no problems.
As much as I miss the old cloaks, this works for me still. Probably taking 5 in small games and 10 in bigger.
Dark Riders are back, and are skirmishers now. A unit of 5 sets you back 80 points. they come with spears, hand weapons, light armor, skirmishers, fast cavalry, swift stride, and open order. Another point a mini they get shields, and repeater crossbows for 2 a pop. Full command is 18 points and the Hareld has an extra attack. Every 1000 points you can make them have fire and flee and or scouts (not sure how the wording works, I am interpreting one or the other but clarification be nice). Kitted up a unit of 10 I think is cheaper then previously. I plan on giving mine fire and flee to better harass the enemy.
Now if you have a Death Hag general, a unit of witch elves can be core. Out favorite half naked ladies on PCP will set you back 110 points for 10 of them. They have 2 hand weapons, Close order, Horde (so extra LD per rank bonus)Loner Murderous, poisonous attacks. A full command is 21 points and they can take magic banners.
They are still a glass cannon, meaning powerful BUT FRAGILE. They are as they say a Hammer Unit, where all their effort is in attack. If you have a standard 5 wide rank, and they have frenzy that is 15 attacks (16 if they have a Deathhag). Going on or two gals wider to increase the amount of attacks they have also sounds like a good idea. However lacking armor, means even basic archery can pick them off and so can anything that survives their initial assult. Also they are relying on poison to get past enemy toughness. While this spamming of attacks means they have, using a D&D dice roller on line to roll 100 dice, that was 21 out of a hundred or less then a quarter of the time. Diving 1/6 gets me roughly 17% of the time. That said, against monsters and ogres this might get enough past their thick hides to just worry about their limited armor.
Avoid heavily armoreed foes like Warriors of Chaos and anything that has knight in its name, and you would be fine with most other units in game. They share the same stats as an average elf, so while I miss the higher initiative, they still do heir job.
So while I miss some elements in the past,there isn't anything that I call egregiously bad.
Warriors and repeater Crosssbowmen. Part of the city guard, these will probably some of the the most common units in the game for DE players.
Warriors come Light Armor, sheilds, hand weapon and as is a unit of 10 will set you back 80 points. Repeater Crossbow men (X-Bows for short from here on out) have hand weapons and repeater crossbows which are a S3 range weapon with a 24 inch range and 2x attacks. What they lack in power like a traditional crossbow, they make up for in numbers. They still have armor bane so a wound on a 6 means they go through a layer of armor. A unit of 10 sets you back 110 points
Both units have close order, Elvin Reflexes (+1 to initiative on first round of combat), Hatred of High Elves, and Martial Prowess.
Warriors can have spears for an extra point, so its a choice between martial prowess or more attacks. I can see units of 25 for swordsmen or units 6 to 7 wide and 4 to 5 for spearmen.
Crossbowmen can take a sheild for another point for shields. I can see several small units of 10 or go bigger an do a unit of 20. Either way its probably going to be gun line time again as only one rank can attack. I'll have a second rank for rank bonus, but readdress if I think I am going into CC, otherwise I am trying to get as many hits in.
Both units full command is 15 points with lordlings in charge of warriors getting +1 attack and crossbowmn get 1 higher BS.
For every 1000 points you have one of these units can be veterans and or take a magic banner.
I miss the pissing contest between dread spears bleackswords, and Dark Shards but otherwise this is great so far.
Corsairs remain largely the same, but when it come to the Sea Dragon Cloak: My beautiful, precious boy, what have they done to you?
A unit of 10 sets you back 110 points. They come with Hand bows (Repeater crossbow pistoles) or an extra hand weapon. Not completely sold on the hand bows per say, but I did always like the duel wielding. They have light armor, and the seadragon cloaks only add another layer of armor against range attacks that are not magical in nature. More balance then turning them into a 4+ AC unit,but now in CC they only get 1 layr of armor. They only a had a 1/3 chance of saving before, but its better than a 6+ any day.
A full command is another 18 points. The Reaver cannot take a brace of handbows, but the banner can havve 50 points of magic items.
Besides Hatred and Elvin Reflexes which is practically army wide, they are an open order unit that can move through cover. This means they have more maneuverability, and even go through some difficult terrain with little to no problems.
As much as I miss the old cloaks, this works for me still. Probably taking 5 in small games and 10 in bigger.
Dark Riders are back, and are skirmishers now. A unit of 5 sets you back 80 points. they come with spears, hand weapons, light armor, skirmishers, fast cavalry, swift stride, and open order. Another point a mini they get shields, and repeater crossbows for 2 a pop. Full command is 18 points and the Hareld has an extra attack. Every 1000 points you can make them have fire and flee and or scouts (not sure how the wording works, I am interpreting one or the other but clarification be nice). Kitted up a unit of 10 I think is cheaper then previously. I plan on giving mine fire and flee to better harass the enemy.
Now if you have a Death Hag general, a unit of witch elves can be core. Out favorite half naked ladies on PCP will set you back 110 points for 10 of them. They have 2 hand weapons, Close order, Horde (so extra LD per rank bonus)Loner Murderous, poisonous attacks. A full command is 21 points and they can take magic banners.
They are still a glass cannon, meaning powerful BUT FRAGILE. They are as they say a Hammer Unit, where all their effort is in attack. If you have a standard 5 wide rank, and they have frenzy that is 15 attacks (16 if they have a Deathhag). Going on or two gals wider to increase the amount of attacks they have also sounds like a good idea. However lacking armor, means even basic archery can pick them off and so can anything that survives their initial assult. Also they are relying on poison to get past enemy toughness. While this spamming of attacks means they have, using a D&D dice roller on line to roll 100 dice, that was 21 out of a hundred or less then a quarter of the time. Diving 1/6 gets me roughly 17% of the time. That said, against monsters and ogres this might get enough past their thick hides to just worry about their limited armor.
Avoid heavily armoreed foes like Warriors of Chaos and anything that has knight in its name, and you would be fine with most other units in game. They share the same stats as an average elf, so while I miss the higher initiative, they still do heir job.
So while I miss some elements in the past,there isn't anything that I call egregiously bad.
Who needs sanity? I have a Hydra
Re: A look at the Dark Elves 2024 PDF
Thanks for the analysis!
Winds never stop blowing, Oceans are borderless. Get a ship and a crew, so the World will be ours! Today the World, tomorrow Nagg! {--|oBrotherhood of the Coast!o|--}
Re: A look at the Dark Elves 2024 PDF
No problem. As for special units.
Half the army can be this, and its going to be fun.
ALready mentioned Witch Elves.
At present there is no limit to the number of Witch Elves, Executioners, shades or harppies you can feild.
you can have one unit of Black GUard per noble (so each Dreadlord and each Master gets one. I suspect if we get a Malekeith/Malarion unit this limitation will be removed but until then).
You can have 1 unit of coldone knights per 1000 points.
You can have 0-2 units of scourge runners or Coldone chariots per 1000 points.
If you have a High Beastmaster as a General a single Kharybdyiss or War Hydra may be a special choice. Otherwise rare, but will mention them here.
Black Guard are what we know and love.
A unit of 10 will set you back 150 points
I think some of the stats are back to what they were in 6th edition as they are Initiative 5 and come with 1 attack standard. At WS 5 they will be hitting most things.
They have full plate armor so they have more protection than previous editions. Their halberds (called Dread halberd) also have an additional perk. Besides the +1 strength, needs both hands, and Armor Bane (1) of the standard the Dread Halberd allows them to fight in ranks. So instead of 6 attacks coming from them, its 11 (assuming you have a champ). This improves them as the strength + number of attacks means they will be dealing lots of damage, and against lightly armored foes they will be a menace.
A full command of them will be 21 points, with tower masters getting 50 points of magic items (so like the Paymaster's coin or Potion of Strength), and can take 50 points of magic banners. As no banner that comes to mind is over this limit, this should be fine.
Like with previous units, they have close order, Elvin Reflexes, Eternal Hatred, Hatred of High Elves. Martial Prowess allows them to make supporting attacks from the rear and flanks so even a classic flank or rear charge won't deny them the attacks. They are stubborn and immune to psychology so that gives them more staying power. In the end, they are potent warriors, and one day I might feel worthy of fielding them.
Harpies, are our lovely ladies of the air (well if you mix witch elves with Gargoyle and furry buts, but enough about that).
A unit of 5 sets you back 55 points. They are a fragile unit, not meant to deal with most heavy hitting units like the Executioners or even Witch Elves can. The main thing going with them is Initiative 5 and 2 attacks. Otherwise they have a WS, S and T of 3 so not much there. Worse yet no armor and they have a and LD of 6 so anything that attacks LD or uses terror is going to be a problem for them.
That is unless you use them for their intended purpose. Like Warhounds, they are made for attacking range units like war machine, bowmen, handgunners and the like, and fleeing unit. They do this by having skirsmishers, Fly 10, move though cover, and scouts. This allows them to get up and personal with units that do not want to be up close to anything.
A unit of 5 to 10 or a couple of them can work well against shooty units. Everything else, they better be running away otherwise these winged hunters will be stuffed turkies.
If you want skirmishers with more bite, the shades are here for you.
A unit of 15 sets you back 75 points. WS and BS 5, with the Bloodshade Champ having a BS of 6. They have hand weapons and repeating crossbows, Elvin Reflexes, Evasive, Hatred of High Elves, Move Though Cover, Scouts and SKirmishers. For another 6 points you get a champ. And for another point they can take light armor.
for more melee options they can take an additional hand weapon or a great weapon, so if you want extra attacks or if you are dealing with dwarves and of course they have heavy armor and sheilds. A unit can have ambushers, chariot runners, and or veterans. I have a unit of 11 metal ones I use as having Great weapons, and a unit that is a mix of old school plasstic warriors and wood elf Glade Guard with 2 hand weapons. Both have served me well. Against some heavy hitting units I doubt they can do much. But agaisnt other skirmishers espesialy with upgraded weapons, and definitily agains tthe kind s of targets for harpies, you can get an easy massacre.
For a greater one, one of the best units in previous editions just keeps getting better.
Executioners.
Same price as Black Guard, they have heavy armor and Har Ganeth Great Swords. The Harganneth Great Sword has -1 AP, +2 strength, Cleaving Blow (Killing Blow, its basically the same I think), and needs both hands. Notice that it is not a great weapon. THis means this unit, with a base Strength of 4, WS 5 with a weapon that allows them to wound a dragon or giant on a 4 and everything else on 2's and 3's does not make you have Initiate 1. You are going before alot of units my friends. Its. So Beautiful. The thing that could have given you a chance was if you killed more of them then they you, but unless you are a higher initiative chances are they will go first.
They come with Close Order, Elven Reflexes, Hatred (High Elves), Murderous, and Veteran standard, with a full command being 18 points. They can be drilled for another 2 points a pop, Draich Masters can have magic items up to 25 points and the can have banners up to 50 points.
Nothing but improves on an already great unit.
What about the knights, which is my Death Star Unit. 5 of them are 155 points and they have Hand weapons, lances, heavy armor and shields, Armour Bane (1, Cold One only), Armored Hide (1), Close Order, Elven Reflexes, Fear, First Charge, Hatred (High Elves), Stupidity, and swift stride.
Fora few points you can give them plate armor, giving them back their old 2+ armor save. As is a full command is 21, with the unit able to take 50 points of magic banners and a champ up to 50 points of magic items. They are Toughness 2 due to the mounts, and while the suffer stupidity they have LD 9 riders so unless the dice gods hate you, you should pass it. Whil their WS is average, 2 S4 attacks with armor bane aint shabby. As for th e riders WS 5 and S4 + lances should mean you can get though most enemies. And they cause fear.
Their weaknesses will be the same of most cavalry. They are mostyl good on the charge as they can disrupt enemy cohesion and +2 to strength and armor bane 1 I think -2 AP (need to look at it from a differnt E reader maybe) they will go through plenty of light and moderately armored foes with little problems, and even give heavily armored ones a run for their money. THey wil also be hitting on S6. On the charge only. If someone else gets the charge, they are stuck with base strength and hand weapons and hope their armor will be enough. Unless you put the lion share of points in them, they probably won't be bigger than a unit with 2 ranks of 5 to 6 knights a rank. If they are the enemy knows where to point their cannon. There is also the wide flanks of cavalry, so get a goodd flank charge and you have more of you attacking then they can.
I don't see the point of not taking the full plate, so a unit of 10 is going to set me back 350 points, and probably more as I planning on units of 12 if not bigger, and experimenting with my old combo of Dreadlord and BSB in the unit and how a sorceress might work now that Lore of Metal is no longer a thing.
Still one of my favorite units, and for a good reason.
As for the COld One chariot, its a support unit. 125 a pop you get the stats of a knight, a 4+ armor save, D6+1 S5 impact hits, with a bunch of the same abilities of the knights. They have repeating crossbows and spears, but as they can march now I am not sure if the X bows will get any love unless you are trying to line up the perfect charge. Unlike Scourge runners, they only come in units of 1, so ou will need other chariots, or have them working with other units to stand chance. They also need to get the charge off. Impact hits is their saving grace. Without it, they are an expensive set piece so hope the Dice Gods don't make you role a 1.
THey also have alot of the same weaknesses of the knights, namely its wide flank and if they don't cause a route due to the damage delt on the charge they will have limited options for keeping the fight going. As much as I love them, its one of the few things I like about them in age of sigmar: they come in units bigger than one. Not saying don't take them, I will, but they will be supporting other chariots, infantry and the like. Outside of now able to march, they have changed little.
Scourge runnesr have been had improvments however While you can take them in units of up to 3, the light chariots are not meant to be big bad things on the battle feild. D6 S4 impact hits is nothing to sneaze at, and with up to 3 of them, thats between 3 and 18 you can inflict on the enemy you charge.
For 85 points, you get essentialy a S an T 4 rig, same amount of wounds with 5+ armor save. The riders are spear and repeating Xbow corsairs, complete with sea dragon cloaks with open order. Being pulled by Dark steeds, what they lack in Coldone chariots power they make up for in speed.
THeir main weapon is the Ravager Harpoon. 24" S6 range weapons with -3 AP, D3 Multiple wounds, so perfect for monsters and monstrous units. That is if they are within range. While a crewman can choose to use it over the other Xbow it is ponderous and cumbersome so moving and shooting makes it difficult to aim, and in general impossible to stand and shoot with it. It also no longer can drag monsters D3 inches closer to you, but that is hardly a problem. IF a Supreme Beastmaster is on one definitely use their higher BS for this bad boy. That said, park it and let the good times role.
FOr the most part they are not bad and with the option to take them in units not just of 1 but also of 2 or 3 means they have more potential. So the coldone Chariot largely stays the same but this one has improved. Its still a light chariot, so against light infantry have fun, but anything hardier run circles around and harass.
Finaly our living tanks the War Hydra and the Kharybdiss. Hydras are 200 points. Move meant 6 gives them good range and WS 4 means they will hit most things. Strength 5 means they will deal serious damage to most things. ON paper they have 2 wounds, but they also have a number of attacks added to that based on how many wounds they have left. Sadly they don't have their super regeneration of 8th edition, and presently its a 5+ regen save SO YESS i DO MISS THE OLD 4+.
Before i get to defenses, the 2 base attacks are with wicked claws, which are at strength but -2 AP so against most foes will be good. The remaining attacks which I am guess correlates with a head because they are with Serrated maws. What they lack in AP they they make up for in Armour Bane (1), Multiple Wounds (2). With this, I am thinking this makes it more able to deal with monstrous and monster units, and the odd chariot. What it lacks in itiiative (I 5 so human level and actualy higher than previous edditions) it makes up for defense. Normaly I would have it as more a crowd controle monster in previous edditions due to the number of attacks and of course its breath attack.
Can it use it on a tartget in close combat if it is itself not in it? Regardless the firy breath is of course, a flaming breath attack. THe attacks are at -1 AP and are based on the remaining wounds (again assumeing its due to the number of heads).
If all else fails, it has terror so most things with low LD will be running from it. Oh, and the Beastmasters, which have some whips to help them get some attacks in, give it a LD of 8 for the most part. And almsot forgot: D3 stomp attaks, so has a chance to get more kills in at the end.
Toughness 5 and 5 wounds means it will stay around for a while. Its other defenses I liked better in older edditions. Both its armor and regen dropped to 4. Maybe this is a ballence thing, but i prefered this to be an armored monster in a leteral sence. As is, it still has a decent chance to shrug off most attacks.
Its biggesst weakness will be its size as its a large target so while it can see alot of stuff to target, perfect for its flaming breath, things can see it. Cannons and even a bunch of shooting units can work. Even if they have ork accuracy blot out the sky with arrows and you are bound to get some that sting more than others. If something has better strength and WS, it might take it out and I can see a giant or a dragon outclassing this one.
Overall I still like my big scaly boies.
For 5 points less, the K beast. In the past I saw it as a brawler meant to deal with high armored elites and other monsters and still think that way. It has alot of the same stats, and beast masters, as a hydra. The main difference is it has S7 attacks and 5 of them. its also WS 5 so it will hit most things and be able to hit most monsters and monstrous units.
At least one attack must be a Cavernous Maw, which is -2 AP, Armor bane (1) and has killing blow. SO bye bye knights. The rest are with Writhing Tenticles which are still -2 AP, but now poisoned attacks. It has D3+1 Stomp attacks. It has the same toughness and wound count as a hydra, and the same armor save but no regeneration so while I like the survivability strength and wounds give it, again I wish it had better than Heavy Armor saves.
That said, if you have a low LD enemy it might not matter. Abyssal Howl gives every enemy with 6" of this guy -2 to LD. This means if it has to pass a fear or terror test, they are screwed if not immune to psychology. So undead and Phoenix Guard are still good, but most others are probably running.. Most humans and orcs are LD 7 standard with elites mostly being 8. This means they are now 5 and 6 respectfully. This goes down even further on most goblin and beastmen, and even a number of monstrous units. Even Dwarves and Elves, which are now either pitifully low or at normal person LD now.
Overall, if you need a big , nasty brawler this is your guy.
Next time the rare choises and since we only get one Merc that I can find, them too.
Half the army can be this, and its going to be fun.
ALready mentioned Witch Elves.
At present there is no limit to the number of Witch Elves, Executioners, shades or harppies you can feild.
you can have one unit of Black GUard per noble (so each Dreadlord and each Master gets one. I suspect if we get a Malekeith/Malarion unit this limitation will be removed but until then).
You can have 1 unit of coldone knights per 1000 points.
You can have 0-2 units of scourge runners or Coldone chariots per 1000 points.
If you have a High Beastmaster as a General a single Kharybdyiss or War Hydra may be a special choice. Otherwise rare, but will mention them here.
Black Guard are what we know and love.
A unit of 10 will set you back 150 points
I think some of the stats are back to what they were in 6th edition as they are Initiative 5 and come with 1 attack standard. At WS 5 they will be hitting most things.
They have full plate armor so they have more protection than previous editions. Their halberds (called Dread halberd) also have an additional perk. Besides the +1 strength, needs both hands, and Armor Bane (1) of the standard the Dread Halberd allows them to fight in ranks. So instead of 6 attacks coming from them, its 11 (assuming you have a champ). This improves them as the strength + number of attacks means they will be dealing lots of damage, and against lightly armored foes they will be a menace.
A full command of them will be 21 points, with tower masters getting 50 points of magic items (so like the Paymaster's coin or Potion of Strength), and can take 50 points of magic banners. As no banner that comes to mind is over this limit, this should be fine.
Like with previous units, they have close order, Elvin Reflexes, Eternal Hatred, Hatred of High Elves. Martial Prowess allows them to make supporting attacks from the rear and flanks so even a classic flank or rear charge won't deny them the attacks. They are stubborn and immune to psychology so that gives them more staying power. In the end, they are potent warriors, and one day I might feel worthy of fielding them.
Harpies, are our lovely ladies of the air (well if you mix witch elves with Gargoyle and furry buts, but enough about that).
A unit of 5 sets you back 55 points. They are a fragile unit, not meant to deal with most heavy hitting units like the Executioners or even Witch Elves can. The main thing going with them is Initiative 5 and 2 attacks. Otherwise they have a WS, S and T of 3 so not much there. Worse yet no armor and they have a and LD of 6 so anything that attacks LD or uses terror is going to be a problem for them.
That is unless you use them for their intended purpose. Like Warhounds, they are made for attacking range units like war machine, bowmen, handgunners and the like, and fleeing unit. They do this by having skirsmishers, Fly 10, move though cover, and scouts. This allows them to get up and personal with units that do not want to be up close to anything.
A unit of 5 to 10 or a couple of them can work well against shooty units. Everything else, they better be running away otherwise these winged hunters will be stuffed turkies.
If you want skirmishers with more bite, the shades are here for you.
A unit of 15 sets you back 75 points. WS and BS 5, with the Bloodshade Champ having a BS of 6. They have hand weapons and repeating crossbows, Elvin Reflexes, Evasive, Hatred of High Elves, Move Though Cover, Scouts and SKirmishers. For another 6 points you get a champ. And for another point they can take light armor.
for more melee options they can take an additional hand weapon or a great weapon, so if you want extra attacks or if you are dealing with dwarves and of course they have heavy armor and sheilds. A unit can have ambushers, chariot runners, and or veterans. I have a unit of 11 metal ones I use as having Great weapons, and a unit that is a mix of old school plasstic warriors and wood elf Glade Guard with 2 hand weapons. Both have served me well. Against some heavy hitting units I doubt they can do much. But agaisnt other skirmishers espesialy with upgraded weapons, and definitily agains tthe kind s of targets for harpies, you can get an easy massacre.
For a greater one, one of the best units in previous editions just keeps getting better.
Executioners.
Same price as Black Guard, they have heavy armor and Har Ganeth Great Swords. The Harganneth Great Sword has -1 AP, +2 strength, Cleaving Blow (Killing Blow, its basically the same I think), and needs both hands. Notice that it is not a great weapon. THis means this unit, with a base Strength of 4, WS 5 with a weapon that allows them to wound a dragon or giant on a 4 and everything else on 2's and 3's does not make you have Initiate 1. You are going before alot of units my friends. Its. So Beautiful. The thing that could have given you a chance was if you killed more of them then they you, but unless you are a higher initiative chances are they will go first.
They come with Close Order, Elven Reflexes, Hatred (High Elves), Murderous, and Veteran standard, with a full command being 18 points. They can be drilled for another 2 points a pop, Draich Masters can have magic items up to 25 points and the can have banners up to 50 points.
Nothing but improves on an already great unit.
What about the knights, which is my Death Star Unit. 5 of them are 155 points and they have Hand weapons, lances, heavy armor and shields, Armour Bane (1, Cold One only), Armored Hide (1), Close Order, Elven Reflexes, Fear, First Charge, Hatred (High Elves), Stupidity, and swift stride.
Fora few points you can give them plate armor, giving them back their old 2+ armor save. As is a full command is 21, with the unit able to take 50 points of magic banners and a champ up to 50 points of magic items. They are Toughness 2 due to the mounts, and while the suffer stupidity they have LD 9 riders so unless the dice gods hate you, you should pass it. Whil their WS is average, 2 S4 attacks with armor bane aint shabby. As for th e riders WS 5 and S4 + lances should mean you can get though most enemies. And they cause fear.
Their weaknesses will be the same of most cavalry. They are mostyl good on the charge as they can disrupt enemy cohesion and +2 to strength and armor bane 1 I think -2 AP (need to look at it from a differnt E reader maybe) they will go through plenty of light and moderately armored foes with little problems, and even give heavily armored ones a run for their money. THey wil also be hitting on S6. On the charge only. If someone else gets the charge, they are stuck with base strength and hand weapons and hope their armor will be enough. Unless you put the lion share of points in them, they probably won't be bigger than a unit with 2 ranks of 5 to 6 knights a rank. If they are the enemy knows where to point their cannon. There is also the wide flanks of cavalry, so get a goodd flank charge and you have more of you attacking then they can.
I don't see the point of not taking the full plate, so a unit of 10 is going to set me back 350 points, and probably more as I planning on units of 12 if not bigger, and experimenting with my old combo of Dreadlord and BSB in the unit and how a sorceress might work now that Lore of Metal is no longer a thing.
Still one of my favorite units, and for a good reason.
As for the COld One chariot, its a support unit. 125 a pop you get the stats of a knight, a 4+ armor save, D6+1 S5 impact hits, with a bunch of the same abilities of the knights. They have repeating crossbows and spears, but as they can march now I am not sure if the X bows will get any love unless you are trying to line up the perfect charge. Unlike Scourge runners, they only come in units of 1, so ou will need other chariots, or have them working with other units to stand chance. They also need to get the charge off. Impact hits is their saving grace. Without it, they are an expensive set piece so hope the Dice Gods don't make you role a 1.
THey also have alot of the same weaknesses of the knights, namely its wide flank and if they don't cause a route due to the damage delt on the charge they will have limited options for keeping the fight going. As much as I love them, its one of the few things I like about them in age of sigmar: they come in units bigger than one. Not saying don't take them, I will, but they will be supporting other chariots, infantry and the like. Outside of now able to march, they have changed little.
Scourge runnesr have been had improvments however While you can take them in units of up to 3, the light chariots are not meant to be big bad things on the battle feild. D6 S4 impact hits is nothing to sneaze at, and with up to 3 of them, thats between 3 and 18 you can inflict on the enemy you charge.
For 85 points, you get essentialy a S an T 4 rig, same amount of wounds with 5+ armor save. The riders are spear and repeating Xbow corsairs, complete with sea dragon cloaks with open order. Being pulled by Dark steeds, what they lack in Coldone chariots power they make up for in speed.
THeir main weapon is the Ravager Harpoon. 24" S6 range weapons with -3 AP, D3 Multiple wounds, so perfect for monsters and monstrous units. That is if they are within range. While a crewman can choose to use it over the other Xbow it is ponderous and cumbersome so moving and shooting makes it difficult to aim, and in general impossible to stand and shoot with it. It also no longer can drag monsters D3 inches closer to you, but that is hardly a problem. IF a Supreme Beastmaster is on one definitely use their higher BS for this bad boy. That said, park it and let the good times role.
FOr the most part they are not bad and with the option to take them in units not just of 1 but also of 2 or 3 means they have more potential. So the coldone Chariot largely stays the same but this one has improved. Its still a light chariot, so against light infantry have fun, but anything hardier run circles around and harass.
Finaly our living tanks the War Hydra and the Kharybdiss. Hydras are 200 points. Move meant 6 gives them good range and WS 4 means they will hit most things. Strength 5 means they will deal serious damage to most things. ON paper they have 2 wounds, but they also have a number of attacks added to that based on how many wounds they have left. Sadly they don't have their super regeneration of 8th edition, and presently its a 5+ regen save SO YESS i DO MISS THE OLD 4+.
Before i get to defenses, the 2 base attacks are with wicked claws, which are at strength but -2 AP so against most foes will be good. The remaining attacks which I am guess correlates with a head because they are with Serrated maws. What they lack in AP they they make up for in Armour Bane (1), Multiple Wounds (2). With this, I am thinking this makes it more able to deal with monstrous and monster units, and the odd chariot. What it lacks in itiiative (I 5 so human level and actualy higher than previous edditions) it makes up for defense. Normaly I would have it as more a crowd controle monster in previous edditions due to the number of attacks and of course its breath attack.
Can it use it on a tartget in close combat if it is itself not in it? Regardless the firy breath is of course, a flaming breath attack. THe attacks are at -1 AP and are based on the remaining wounds (again assumeing its due to the number of heads).
If all else fails, it has terror so most things with low LD will be running from it. Oh, and the Beastmasters, which have some whips to help them get some attacks in, give it a LD of 8 for the most part. And almsot forgot: D3 stomp attaks, so has a chance to get more kills in at the end.
Toughness 5 and 5 wounds means it will stay around for a while. Its other defenses I liked better in older edditions. Both its armor and regen dropped to 4. Maybe this is a ballence thing, but i prefered this to be an armored monster in a leteral sence. As is, it still has a decent chance to shrug off most attacks.
Its biggesst weakness will be its size as its a large target so while it can see alot of stuff to target, perfect for its flaming breath, things can see it. Cannons and even a bunch of shooting units can work. Even if they have ork accuracy blot out the sky with arrows and you are bound to get some that sting more than others. If something has better strength and WS, it might take it out and I can see a giant or a dragon outclassing this one.
Overall I still like my big scaly boies.
For 5 points less, the K beast. In the past I saw it as a brawler meant to deal with high armored elites and other monsters and still think that way. It has alot of the same stats, and beast masters, as a hydra. The main difference is it has S7 attacks and 5 of them. its also WS 5 so it will hit most things and be able to hit most monsters and monstrous units.
At least one attack must be a Cavernous Maw, which is -2 AP, Armor bane (1) and has killing blow. SO bye bye knights. The rest are with Writhing Tenticles which are still -2 AP, but now poisoned attacks. It has D3+1 Stomp attacks. It has the same toughness and wound count as a hydra, and the same armor save but no regeneration so while I like the survivability strength and wounds give it, again I wish it had better than Heavy Armor saves.
That said, if you have a low LD enemy it might not matter. Abyssal Howl gives every enemy with 6" of this guy -2 to LD. This means if it has to pass a fear or terror test, they are screwed if not immune to psychology. So undead and Phoenix Guard are still good, but most others are probably running.. Most humans and orcs are LD 7 standard with elites mostly being 8. This means they are now 5 and 6 respectfully. This goes down even further on most goblin and beastmen, and even a number of monstrous units. Even Dwarves and Elves, which are now either pitifully low or at normal person LD now.
Overall, if you need a big , nasty brawler this is your guy.
Next time the rare choises and since we only get one Merc that I can find, them too.
Who needs sanity? I have a Hydra
Re: A look at the Dark Elves 2024 PDF
How about the rare choices and our lone merc unit.
for a quarter of your army's points you can take as many units of Sisters of Slaughter (almost said sisters of battle, gives me a kit bash idea though), War Hydras, Kharibdyss, Bloodwrack Shrines and medusa you can fit.
You can take one unit of Doomfire Warlocks per 1000 points, and 2 Reaper Bolt Throwers for every 1000 points.
Starting with the reaper, for 85 points you have a warmachine I think has been greatly improved simply because the bolt thrower and repeating bolt thrower rules have been improved.
They have a crew of 2 which are in a skirmisher formation, but if you are like me because 8th Ed, early AOS, and Kings of War, you glued them to the same base. In any case, the main bolt still has a 48" range and has a S6 hit. They still go through ranks. The Improvement is the damage dealt. Instead of D3 its a constant 2 wounds. This means you do not need to roll for a number of wounds and hope you don't roll on a 1 or 2. You had the potential to do more, but the consistency means you always have a chance of dealing a chunk of damage with a single hit.
Repeater I guess will depend on how you view it. Its D3+3 so Minium 4 hits that are AP-1 and Armor Bane S4 hits. I miss the automatic goes through 2 layers of armor, and the consistent 6 shots. But this option is usually for larger, lightly armored units and you usualy have more than one bolt thrower. FOr 85 points, the old stand by is not bad.
The hydra is a differnt story. Its still my go to heavy hitter mini in the game, but its armor and Regeneration have been lowered by 1 compared to older editions. 5 wounds and T 5 is still alot to get through, but that added 4+ protection you get twice.
That said for200 points you still get a battle tank. WS 4 nets you decent enough hit rate, and S5 means you go through most things. Now initially you could think only 2 attacks would suck, but it also gets a number of extra attacks representing the heads for every remaining wound. THe two consistent attacks are the Wicked claws that hit with -2 AP. This means modernly and lighltly armored foes will have little to no defences, and often leaving heavily armored fores with a half a chance to make an armored save. That said, the Serated Maws that make the other 1-5 attacks are more crowd Controle and lightly armored. What they lack in armor piercing they make up for in Armor Bane and Multiple Wounds (2). This might make it perfect for foes like Ogres and chariots that tend to have lots of wounds and higher toughness as it will be wounding them on 3s and 4s.
The wound count also the basis for the Flaming Breath attack. One wound equals S1, 5 heads S5.
I still Like him but can see some nurfing especially when compared to the 8th edition model. But its on par in alot of ways to its 6th and 7th edition self, and the handlers do give it an LD of 8. Oh, and bessides terror, it still keeps D3 of its stomps form 8th Ed. SO got some pesky orcs or dwrfs, or a spear wall of empire state troops, we got your monster.
for 5 points less you Ge the Kharibdyss or as we affectionally call it: The K-Beast. In the past I called the Hydra a crowd controller and the K-Beast a Brawler. The former best for dealing with large units, usually lightly or moderately armed and armored. And that still holds up. The K-Best I thought was best when dealing other monsters, monstrous units and heavily armored elites and in many respects its stil true. Besides the handlers that boost its LD,, the 5 wounds, the same save as previously stated, and D3+1 stomp attacks, it has:
WS5 so hitting most things on 3s, and more eleite units on a 4. S7 means its even giving a dragon or giant a wound on a 3. One attack must be a Cavernous Maw wich is -2 AP, Armor Bane 1 and Killing Blow. Armor bane and Killing blow might sound overkill but against a monster that atualy has some armor like a high elf dragon, this will do wonders. The rest of the attacks, made with Writhing Tenticles, are still -2 AP but are also Poison attacks. Not as much AP as I would like, but considering its S7 a chance to auto wound on a to hit of 6 is a bit overkill for me.
However after dealing its damage, I can see this being a nightmare for enemy units that have low LD. Abbysal Howl is a rule that makes enemies within 6" of this fellow have a -1 modeifier on their LD. This means Breaking from combat for goblin, orc, beastmen, ogre, most monster, and most human enemies will be easier and Elves and Dwarves are brought low. I can even see this being detrimental to Undead and Daemons as one of these things can mean they take more damage when they have to roll to see how many of them crumble.
Overall, still awesome.
If there is one group that I think got the short end of the stick, in both lore and the current rules, its the Medusas. Starting with the shrine, Everyone has cavalry spears, is on a heavy chariot with D6 impacts, an appropriat strength toughmess, and armor for their chariot, Magic Resistance -1, murderous,poison attacks, frenzy, hatred high evolves, and terror.
The Gorgon herself brings WS 5 and 3 S4 melee hits, and her petrifying Gaze is at a BS 5. I also still think it was better in Age of Sigmar as it still at S2. Its against one's Initiate, so alot of monsters and monstrous units will be getting wounds on 4, which are magical and cause D3 wounds, but Giants, Dragons, humans, and Elves will be better prepared to handle this. Stony Stare, for when they are in melee,as at the start of compbat phase the gorgon forces everything in base contact with her take an intiative test. Pass and they overted their eyes. Fail and D3 S2 hits. Both ignore armor, so if you are dealing with a Basiladon heave at ye, but it could have been better in my humble oppionion.
I don't mind the Dragged aong rule as much as I thought it would. Yeah I prefer to have it inside my unit of spearmen, but moving more than 2 inches because you are near them isn't as bad as it could be. Just be close to some infantry and aybe be the one to charge first when you do charges (you do have terror).
WHat I miss was the aura of pain and agony that the Medua evoked and was harnessed via the shrine. Enemies suffered -1 to their LD as they were wracked with her writhing pain and anguish, but her allies got +1 to it as Druchii are sadists and this is probably a Tuesday for them.
On belly scoots, a lone medusa has a hand weapon, 3 wounds, Elven Reflexes, Fear, Frenzy, Hatred (High Elves),
Magic Resistance (-1), Murderous, Poisoned Attacks, Stony Stare and the Petrifying gze. LD has been uped dramatically since last edition, now a 7 instead of a 2, but this is still a one woman unit. So if you have some points left over and using the Cauldron of Khain for something else why not. Maybe have her protect the reapers or march alongside the crossbowmen for added support. Still not that impressed.
As for the warlocks, i never took them outside of Total War so can't say I have first hand experiance with them. THeey are down an attack, but still have a 5+ ward save against mundane attacks, elvin refexes, poison attacks. While a champion is optional on paper, to get the full potential out of them you need to take one.
Cursed coven allows them to pick a spell form Daemonology or dark magic and have it as a Level 0 bound spell. If you have under 9 minies and a master you instead cast it at level 1. 10 or more with a Master, and Level 2. SO if you want to ast a spell that delas damage or hinders your foes regularly, need a master. A unit of 5 is 110 points and a master adds another 6 to it so bare minimum you need 116 to field this unit. Dark steeds do give it range, and there are plenty of spells that can hinder and harm the enemy with easy in these lores, but I have a feeling thy were better when first introduced.
As for the merc, My info is comeing from this army builder website here.
https://old-world-builder.com/
THe Badlands Ogres are a Ogre Bulls BUT with a Maneater's motley crew ruleset. 3 are about 93 points. they can take up to 50 points of banners, some of which look like Orc and Goblin. They have all the rules and stats you expect of a Ogre Bull: Impact hits Armor Piercing based on these Impact hits increased to -1 per rank, 3 wounds, S4, T4. While average WS and an Initiative of 2 leaves much to be desired, fear can keep some enemies from hitting them and they are tough. They come with Light Armor but can boost it to Heavy armor for 4 points a pop.
Unlike Bulls, they can take a variety of weapons. Extra hand weapons, Great Weapons, and Ironfists are all for the taking. SO if you want to deal some extra damage, here's your best bet.
Itss nice to have some extra mucle, but they have the strength and weakness of an ogre so do not expect too many of them to be around in most games (can only take 20 % of the army points for them). Wished we had more options, but maybe when we get more dogs fo war to cry havok we can get something.
Nex up, Magic items.
for a quarter of your army's points you can take as many units of Sisters of Slaughter (almost said sisters of battle, gives me a kit bash idea though), War Hydras, Kharibdyss, Bloodwrack Shrines and medusa you can fit.
You can take one unit of Doomfire Warlocks per 1000 points, and 2 Reaper Bolt Throwers for every 1000 points.
Starting with the reaper, for 85 points you have a warmachine I think has been greatly improved simply because the bolt thrower and repeating bolt thrower rules have been improved.
They have a crew of 2 which are in a skirmisher formation, but if you are like me because 8th Ed, early AOS, and Kings of War, you glued them to the same base. In any case, the main bolt still has a 48" range and has a S6 hit. They still go through ranks. The Improvement is the damage dealt. Instead of D3 its a constant 2 wounds. This means you do not need to roll for a number of wounds and hope you don't roll on a 1 or 2. You had the potential to do more, but the consistency means you always have a chance of dealing a chunk of damage with a single hit.
Repeater I guess will depend on how you view it. Its D3+3 so Minium 4 hits that are AP-1 and Armor Bane S4 hits. I miss the automatic goes through 2 layers of armor, and the consistent 6 shots. But this option is usually for larger, lightly armored units and you usualy have more than one bolt thrower. FOr 85 points, the old stand by is not bad.
The hydra is a differnt story. Its still my go to heavy hitter mini in the game, but its armor and Regeneration have been lowered by 1 compared to older editions. 5 wounds and T 5 is still alot to get through, but that added 4+ protection you get twice.
That said for200 points you still get a battle tank. WS 4 nets you decent enough hit rate, and S5 means you go through most things. Now initially you could think only 2 attacks would suck, but it also gets a number of extra attacks representing the heads for every remaining wound. THe two consistent attacks are the Wicked claws that hit with -2 AP. This means modernly and lighltly armored foes will have little to no defences, and often leaving heavily armored fores with a half a chance to make an armored save. That said, the Serated Maws that make the other 1-5 attacks are more crowd Controle and lightly armored. What they lack in armor piercing they make up for in Armor Bane and Multiple Wounds (2). This might make it perfect for foes like Ogres and chariots that tend to have lots of wounds and higher toughness as it will be wounding them on 3s and 4s.
The wound count also the basis for the Flaming Breath attack. One wound equals S1, 5 heads S5.
I still Like him but can see some nurfing especially when compared to the 8th edition model. But its on par in alot of ways to its 6th and 7th edition self, and the handlers do give it an LD of 8. Oh, and bessides terror, it still keeps D3 of its stomps form 8th Ed. SO got some pesky orcs or dwrfs, or a spear wall of empire state troops, we got your monster.
for 5 points less you Ge the Kharibdyss or as we affectionally call it: The K-Beast. In the past I called the Hydra a crowd controller and the K-Beast a Brawler. The former best for dealing with large units, usually lightly or moderately armed and armored. And that still holds up. The K-Best I thought was best when dealing other monsters, monstrous units and heavily armored elites and in many respects its stil true. Besides the handlers that boost its LD,, the 5 wounds, the same save as previously stated, and D3+1 stomp attacks, it has:
WS5 so hitting most things on 3s, and more eleite units on a 4. S7 means its even giving a dragon or giant a wound on a 3. One attack must be a Cavernous Maw wich is -2 AP, Armor Bane 1 and Killing Blow. Armor bane and Killing blow might sound overkill but against a monster that atualy has some armor like a high elf dragon, this will do wonders. The rest of the attacks, made with Writhing Tenticles, are still -2 AP but are also Poison attacks. Not as much AP as I would like, but considering its S7 a chance to auto wound on a to hit of 6 is a bit overkill for me.
However after dealing its damage, I can see this being a nightmare for enemy units that have low LD. Abbysal Howl is a rule that makes enemies within 6" of this fellow have a -1 modeifier on their LD. This means Breaking from combat for goblin, orc, beastmen, ogre, most monster, and most human enemies will be easier and Elves and Dwarves are brought low. I can even see this being detrimental to Undead and Daemons as one of these things can mean they take more damage when they have to roll to see how many of them crumble.
Overall, still awesome.
If there is one group that I think got the short end of the stick, in both lore and the current rules, its the Medusas. Starting with the shrine, Everyone has cavalry spears, is on a heavy chariot with D6 impacts, an appropriat strength toughmess, and armor for their chariot, Magic Resistance -1, murderous,poison attacks, frenzy, hatred high evolves, and terror.
The Gorgon herself brings WS 5 and 3 S4 melee hits, and her petrifying Gaze is at a BS 5. I also still think it was better in Age of Sigmar as it still at S2. Its against one's Initiate, so alot of monsters and monstrous units will be getting wounds on 4, which are magical and cause D3 wounds, but Giants, Dragons, humans, and Elves will be better prepared to handle this. Stony Stare, for when they are in melee,as at the start of compbat phase the gorgon forces everything in base contact with her take an intiative test. Pass and they overted their eyes. Fail and D3 S2 hits. Both ignore armor, so if you are dealing with a Basiladon heave at ye, but it could have been better in my humble oppionion.
I don't mind the Dragged aong rule as much as I thought it would. Yeah I prefer to have it inside my unit of spearmen, but moving more than 2 inches because you are near them isn't as bad as it could be. Just be close to some infantry and aybe be the one to charge first when you do charges (you do have terror).
WHat I miss was the aura of pain and agony that the Medua evoked and was harnessed via the shrine. Enemies suffered -1 to their LD as they were wracked with her writhing pain and anguish, but her allies got +1 to it as Druchii are sadists and this is probably a Tuesday for them.
On belly scoots, a lone medusa has a hand weapon, 3 wounds, Elven Reflexes, Fear, Frenzy, Hatred (High Elves),
Magic Resistance (-1), Murderous, Poisoned Attacks, Stony Stare and the Petrifying gze. LD has been uped dramatically since last edition, now a 7 instead of a 2, but this is still a one woman unit. So if you have some points left over and using the Cauldron of Khain for something else why not. Maybe have her protect the reapers or march alongside the crossbowmen for added support. Still not that impressed.
As for the warlocks, i never took them outside of Total War so can't say I have first hand experiance with them. THeey are down an attack, but still have a 5+ ward save against mundane attacks, elvin refexes, poison attacks. While a champion is optional on paper, to get the full potential out of them you need to take one.
Cursed coven allows them to pick a spell form Daemonology or dark magic and have it as a Level 0 bound spell. If you have under 9 minies and a master you instead cast it at level 1. 10 or more with a Master, and Level 2. SO if you want to ast a spell that delas damage or hinders your foes regularly, need a master. A unit of 5 is 110 points and a master adds another 6 to it so bare minimum you need 116 to field this unit. Dark steeds do give it range, and there are plenty of spells that can hinder and harm the enemy with easy in these lores, but I have a feeling thy were better when first introduced.
As for the merc, My info is comeing from this army builder website here.
https://old-world-builder.com/
THe Badlands Ogres are a Ogre Bulls BUT with a Maneater's motley crew ruleset. 3 are about 93 points. they can take up to 50 points of banners, some of which look like Orc and Goblin. They have all the rules and stats you expect of a Ogre Bull: Impact hits Armor Piercing based on these Impact hits increased to -1 per rank, 3 wounds, S4, T4. While average WS and an Initiative of 2 leaves much to be desired, fear can keep some enemies from hitting them and they are tough. They come with Light Armor but can boost it to Heavy armor for 4 points a pop.
Unlike Bulls, they can take a variety of weapons. Extra hand weapons, Great Weapons, and Ironfists are all for the taking. SO if you want to deal some extra damage, here's your best bet.
Itss nice to have some extra mucle, but they have the strength and weakness of an ogre so do not expect too many of them to be around in most games (can only take 20 % of the army points for them). Wished we had more options, but maybe when we get more dogs fo war to cry havok we can get something.
Nex up, Magic items.
Who needs sanity? I have a Hydra
Re: A look at the Dark Elves 2024 PDF
I am hoping to get more comments on here, because when I don't I fear I am the smartest one in the room and imposter syndrome takes over. I know there are smarter people here, so please speak your mind.
SO onto magic items. Whenit comes to magic weapons unless I say otherwise assume it grants magical attacks.
For 70points, you get an exectutioner's ax. THis item has always been expensive so one that is a C- in an American Grades is not that bad (yes, i have heard how Europe does this, I am jealous too). While technially the attacks are made at strength, they always wound on a 2. This means you can even deal damage to a Great Unclean One with this easily. It also comes with -2 AP, but is held back by Needs 2 hands and Strike Last. If you want to play an executioner charecter, here you go, or go with the headman's Ax in the common item list. Still pretty decent for monster slaying.
Next Up the Sword of Ruin. This weapon ignores all saves (armor, ward, and regeneration). So while it may not be the best for many a high toughness foe, it is great for high armored foes. It sets you back 65 points.
Lifetaker: Part of me likes it, but part of me is going: What have they done to my baby as my go to after reading one short someone did on here was to give it to a level 2 sorceress. Its back to a 24 inch range, hits on S3 and has AP-1. They ditched the always hit on 2s, which is bad in my opinion as that was its charm. However they did give it D3+1 Multiple shots, Armorbane (1), and poison attacks. I can see this on a Beastlord or a Shhooting heavy Dreadlord. However at 35 points by old strategy of a Lore of Fire Power stone and Lifetaker combo is going to have to go on a supreme sorceress, or perhaps an assassin in a range unit. Right now I think my brain on the spectrum and having to change this main strategy of mine is collering my views so will have to try it on one of the others simetime.
Speaking of Hgh BEastmaster, Whip of Agony is a cheap 30 point weapon. Besides giving the weilder +1strength and -1 AP, the Beastlord Strikes first.Any foe that it hits takes a permanent -1 modifier to toughness. It doesn't say this stacks, but considering you will be hitting on 5's you can easily make most monsters woundable aton 3s to wound after 1 successful unsaved hit, and sincce many are lightly armored this means you will be getting a wound off more times than not. Even against a high toughness foe like a giant, a lucky wound of a 5, or in combination with a potion of strength, can make it woundable on 4's in future rounds. Can only be on your beastmaster, so I will be trying this out on mine soon.
When it comes to armor, the SHeild fof Ghround coems back. eating up 40 points, besides being a shield it makes enemy attacks hit at -1 strength. SO a high strength foe such as a chaos lord, monster, or foe armed with a great weapon is less scarry. Granted a chaos lord with a gret wepon (about S7) is still scary but now its less so. Against most others this will make them more reasonable espesialy if riding a coldone or Dragon which upps your wond count and toughness.
FOr 30 points you could also go with blood armor. Its starts as a 5+ save, but every unsaved wound the bearer inflicts bumps it up by 1, to a max of 2+. I can see a fighter armed with the Lifetaker and this easily picking off a few foes, and then by the time of the melee able to tank some hits.
The Pendant Of Khaeleth is a 40point item I see putting on my main Supreme sorceress, again. Its a 5+ wardsave against most attacks, but if they are S5 or higher then its a 4+.
Perl of Infinet bleakness is what you have on your Black Guard Character (seriously, HE and WE have their character upgrades, why not us) and for 15 points they and their unit is immune to psychology.
For banners, 65 points nets you Banner Of Nagarythe. Units carrying it aare stuborn, and get a +1 to their points when calculating who wins in combat. For a BSB, not bad, but I think 6th ed was the best vertion. Still, its not obnoxiously priced so can't complain too much.
a 35point banner, SStandard of Slaughter, is perfect for a unit of Coldone Knights as on the turn they charges they gain D3 Combat Resolution points
for 25 points, the Banner of Hag Grif improves AP by -1, so a unit without this is now AP-1 and an unit of executioners are AP-3. Not as good as a razoe banner but its 20 points cheaper so a unit of witch elves or one of the other core units sound awsome.
THe Cold Blooded Banner is a 20point one use item can use this durring any LD test be it fear or breaking and the like. When you do, roll an extra D6 and discard the highest of the 3 dice rolled.
Encantments are all under 40 points.
for 5 points less than that you start with the single use Black Dragon Egg. Use it during the command sub phase and it grants the wielder the Black Dragon's Noxious Breath and until the end of the turn, a toughness of 6 that cannot be improved. It only lasts until the end of the turn, but if you plan on dealing with high strength foes, this might be a good egg for you.
Hydra's teeth is an interesting one as while its not officially a magic item, it is. Its a throwing weapon, so as user, move and shoot, quick to shoot, with magical attacks. Said attacks are at -3 AP and they can target specific models like champions and characters. So, yes this going on one of my assassins, why do you ask?
The Guiding Eye grants the bearer's unit chance to reroll failed range attack hits during the shooting phase. I can see a character armed with this, the Life Taker, and in a unit of X-bows and use their repeater action to get some extra hits in.
Off to Arcane we have the 55 point black staff
The lady using this can say they are going to, and then add an extra D6 to roll. Afterwords they discard this. This sounds awesome BUT if before you discard, see if its a double 1 as that happens before casting, and yes, that is a miscast. As Dark elves use wild abandon in their spell casting it fits the flavor of them.
for 10 points, the focus familiar is back. THe upside is has an Asterix (*) to it so you can take as many as you want in a game. The problem is its one use. Otherwise it works alot like the old one in 7th ed. Place a marker within 12" of the owning caster and from that point they can cast a spell at a target. If it requires line of sight then the familiar gets 360 visual ark. WHle I pref the more perminent vertion at a smaller range, take a couple of these and an otherwise short range spell has some distancce it can get.
Finaly Tomb of Furion is back, granting the bearer an extra spell to role for and its only 15 points.
Forget if I covered the spells in the Lore of Naggrond, so here we go.
Cursing Word: Besides summoning a dragon in an episode of Southpark, it weakens your enemies.
Type: Hex
Casting Value: 9+
Range: 12"
Effect: Remains in play. Whilst this spell is in play, the target enemy unit reduces either its Weapon skill characteristic, or its Ballistic Skill characteristic (chosen by the casting Wizard’s controlling player) to 1. If this spell is cast, the effects of any other Hex previously cast on the target unit immediately expire.
Overal not bad. Probably for one of the higher leveled casters though.
Black Horror: No its not whats for dinner at the house of the aunt that cook to save your life, and why her family has stocks in every company that sells antacid.
Type: Magical Vortex
Casting Value: 9+
Range: 18"
Effect: Remains in play. Place a large (5") blast template so that its central hole is within 18" of the caster. Whilst in play, the template is treated as dangerous terrain. The template moves 2D6" in a random direction during every Start of Turn sub-phase. Any enemy unit the moving template touches or moves over must immediately make D6 Strength tests. For each test that is failed, the unit loses a single Wound.
Its an oldy but a goody.
SO any thoughts or combinations we can think of with any of these?
SO onto magic items. Whenit comes to magic weapons unless I say otherwise assume it grants magical attacks.
For 70points, you get an exectutioner's ax. THis item has always been expensive so one that is a C- in an American Grades is not that bad (yes, i have heard how Europe does this, I am jealous too). While technially the attacks are made at strength, they always wound on a 2. This means you can even deal damage to a Great Unclean One with this easily. It also comes with -2 AP, but is held back by Needs 2 hands and Strike Last. If you want to play an executioner charecter, here you go, or go with the headman's Ax in the common item list. Still pretty decent for monster slaying.
Next Up the Sword of Ruin. This weapon ignores all saves (armor, ward, and regeneration). So while it may not be the best for many a high toughness foe, it is great for high armored foes. It sets you back 65 points.
Lifetaker: Part of me likes it, but part of me is going: What have they done to my baby as my go to after reading one short someone did on here was to give it to a level 2 sorceress. Its back to a 24 inch range, hits on S3 and has AP-1. They ditched the always hit on 2s, which is bad in my opinion as that was its charm. However they did give it D3+1 Multiple shots, Armorbane (1), and poison attacks. I can see this on a Beastlord or a Shhooting heavy Dreadlord. However at 35 points by old strategy of a Lore of Fire Power stone and Lifetaker combo is going to have to go on a supreme sorceress, or perhaps an assassin in a range unit. Right now I think my brain on the spectrum and having to change this main strategy of mine is collering my views so will have to try it on one of the others simetime.
Speaking of Hgh BEastmaster, Whip of Agony is a cheap 30 point weapon. Besides giving the weilder +1strength and -1 AP, the Beastlord Strikes first.Any foe that it hits takes a permanent -1 modifier to toughness. It doesn't say this stacks, but considering you will be hitting on 5's you can easily make most monsters woundable aton 3s to wound after 1 successful unsaved hit, and sincce many are lightly armored this means you will be getting a wound off more times than not. Even against a high toughness foe like a giant, a lucky wound of a 5, or in combination with a potion of strength, can make it woundable on 4's in future rounds. Can only be on your beastmaster, so I will be trying this out on mine soon.
When it comes to armor, the SHeild fof Ghround coems back. eating up 40 points, besides being a shield it makes enemy attacks hit at -1 strength. SO a high strength foe such as a chaos lord, monster, or foe armed with a great weapon is less scarry. Granted a chaos lord with a gret wepon (about S7) is still scary but now its less so. Against most others this will make them more reasonable espesialy if riding a coldone or Dragon which upps your wond count and toughness.
FOr 30 points you could also go with blood armor. Its starts as a 5+ save, but every unsaved wound the bearer inflicts bumps it up by 1, to a max of 2+. I can see a fighter armed with the Lifetaker and this easily picking off a few foes, and then by the time of the melee able to tank some hits.
The Pendant Of Khaeleth is a 40point item I see putting on my main Supreme sorceress, again. Its a 5+ wardsave against most attacks, but if they are S5 or higher then its a 4+.
Perl of Infinet bleakness is what you have on your Black Guard Character (seriously, HE and WE have their character upgrades, why not us) and for 15 points they and their unit is immune to psychology.
For banners, 65 points nets you Banner Of Nagarythe. Units carrying it aare stuborn, and get a +1 to their points when calculating who wins in combat. For a BSB, not bad, but I think 6th ed was the best vertion. Still, its not obnoxiously priced so can't complain too much.
a 35point banner, SStandard of Slaughter, is perfect for a unit of Coldone Knights as on the turn they charges they gain D3 Combat Resolution points
for 25 points, the Banner of Hag Grif improves AP by -1, so a unit without this is now AP-1 and an unit of executioners are AP-3. Not as good as a razoe banner but its 20 points cheaper so a unit of witch elves or one of the other core units sound awsome.
THe Cold Blooded Banner is a 20point one use item can use this durring any LD test be it fear or breaking and the like. When you do, roll an extra D6 and discard the highest of the 3 dice rolled.
Encantments are all under 40 points.
for 5 points less than that you start with the single use Black Dragon Egg. Use it during the command sub phase and it grants the wielder the Black Dragon's Noxious Breath and until the end of the turn, a toughness of 6 that cannot be improved. It only lasts until the end of the turn, but if you plan on dealing with high strength foes, this might be a good egg for you.
Hydra's teeth is an interesting one as while its not officially a magic item, it is. Its a throwing weapon, so as user, move and shoot, quick to shoot, with magical attacks. Said attacks are at -3 AP and they can target specific models like champions and characters. So, yes this going on one of my assassins, why do you ask?
The Guiding Eye grants the bearer's unit chance to reroll failed range attack hits during the shooting phase. I can see a character armed with this, the Life Taker, and in a unit of X-bows and use their repeater action to get some extra hits in.
Off to Arcane we have the 55 point black staff
The lady using this can say they are going to, and then add an extra D6 to roll. Afterwords they discard this. This sounds awesome BUT if before you discard, see if its a double 1 as that happens before casting, and yes, that is a miscast. As Dark elves use wild abandon in their spell casting it fits the flavor of them.
for 10 points, the focus familiar is back. THe upside is has an Asterix (*) to it so you can take as many as you want in a game. The problem is its one use. Otherwise it works alot like the old one in 7th ed. Place a marker within 12" of the owning caster and from that point they can cast a spell at a target. If it requires line of sight then the familiar gets 360 visual ark. WHle I pref the more perminent vertion at a smaller range, take a couple of these and an otherwise short range spell has some distancce it can get.
Finaly Tomb of Furion is back, granting the bearer an extra spell to role for and its only 15 points.
Forget if I covered the spells in the Lore of Naggrond, so here we go.
Cursing Word: Besides summoning a dragon in an episode of Southpark, it weakens your enemies.
Type: Hex
Casting Value: 9+
Range: 12"
Effect: Remains in play. Whilst this spell is in play, the target enemy unit reduces either its Weapon skill characteristic, or its Ballistic Skill characteristic (chosen by the casting Wizard’s controlling player) to 1. If this spell is cast, the effects of any other Hex previously cast on the target unit immediately expire.
Overal not bad. Probably for one of the higher leveled casters though.
Black Horror: No its not whats for dinner at the house of the aunt that cook to save your life, and why her family has stocks in every company that sells antacid.
Type: Magical Vortex
Casting Value: 9+
Range: 18"
Effect: Remains in play. Place a large (5") blast template so that its central hole is within 18" of the caster. Whilst in play, the template is treated as dangerous terrain. The template moves 2D6" in a random direction during every Start of Turn sub-phase. Any enemy unit the moving template touches or moves over must immediately make D6 Strength tests. For each test that is failed, the unit loses a single Wound.
Its an oldy but a goody.
SO any thoughts or combinations we can think of with any of these?
Who needs sanity? I have a Hydra