Druchii.net

Posted: **Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:26 pm**

This thread is designed to improve our situation in Lustria by using our excellent community to solve all the problems you as players have with the Lizardmen. Unlike in the main campaign we have no special sites to post at, we simply have to post more wins than the Lizardmen. To gain more wins or rather to avoid losses we need to iron out any problems that you as the controllers of the Druchii army are having with your local Lizardmen opponents.

So...
Simply state what problems you are having with your enemy Lizardmen army and the community should do its best to help you. As the campaign is at roughly 50% we obviously aren't winning the majority of the battles fought in Lustria so people do have problems with local Lizardmen armies.

Important. This thread should be for the entire community with the knowledge and personal experience of everyone being put to good use in winning the Lustria campaign. This thread is here to help you as long as people use it. The more you put in the more you get out. Be part of the discussion, help each other. If you really love the Dark Elves this will pay off.

P.S. I would appreciate it if a mod made this sticky.

Thanks.

Posted: **Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:34 pm**

Ok, I'll start.

My opponent always fields a tightly packed army with large saurus blocks surrounded with skinks. He positions them in lines wrapping around the army so that each skink unit is within 12" of the general. On his higher Ld and the Coolblooded rule they never panic from shooting, meaning I have to charge them before I can get to saurus. That means putting lightly armoured units in front of poisoned javalins and blow darts. How can this be avoided.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 8:22 am**

Maldor wrote:Ok, I'll start.

My opponent always fields a tightly packed army with large saurus blocks surrounded with skinks. He positions them in lines wrapping around the army so that each skink unit is within 12" of the general. On his higher Ld and the Coolblooded rule they never panic from shooting, meaning I have to charge them before I can get to saurus. That means putting lightly armoured units in front of poisoned javalins and blow darts. How can this be avoided.

My idea, you don't have to kill ALL the skinks to make a hole in the line. shoot and even more MAGIC Through, if he has a old blood and lots of saurus he cannot have much anti-magic. Magic missle's will work, BUT if you can use magic spells to force the skinks to move some other way, he might find himself having a small problem, OR worse, send his scar vet the otherway, make them walk backwards. This will brake his plan as the skinks will get out of his reach. For the rest I would advice on furie's and/or harpies for the job. If he has a unit of 20 skinks with blowpipe's he needs 7's to hit (over half range, skirmish, charging unit) on single shot or 8's on multishot (both means no poison). This would probably result in the death or 1 fury/harpy. The should have no real problem killing skinks in combat, although you cannot be sure about such a thing.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 2:52 pm**

I doubt magic will work, considering he is a fan of the Sacred Spawning that gives extra dispel dice. Harpies are a good idea, but being 0-1 they won't be able to make as big a whole as I'd like.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:32 pm**

You don't have to charge the Skinks with lightly armoured troops. Try sending a unit of Cold One Knights at them. This may even confuse your opponent causing him to alter his game plan as he will probably expect the Knights to go for his Saurus units. Other tricks you could try are with flying monsters (preferably Dragons as they have an armour save to stop poisoned darts/javelins). If you can fly over the top of his army and hit it in the rear then you can cause a break in the line and cause your opponent to act rashly.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:41 pm**

Yeah, i have a prob with my Lizardmen enemy:
He uses a lot of Salamanders, 5 of them.
He always puts them in a very good guarded spots.
I don't have much to fire (only 20 RxB) and his Saurus Warriors and Skinks Scouts kill my troops very easy.
What to do??

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:56 pm**

Yea, that soudns similar to my opponent. The salamanders are annyoing to kill, becaue of all the skinks.........

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:07 pm**

I havent tried this yet but if my opponet have Chamilion skins he will have no problem getting behind my line.... what can you do about that?

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:36 pm**

Skinks don't pose much of a threat if you throw a Chillwind at them. Same goes for Salamanders. You just need to kill one Skink Handler in the Salamander unit with a Chillwind and none of the Salamanders can shoot in their next shooting phase.

Another tactic for Sallies is to charge them so you hit the Skinks first. Don't let your opponent line up his Salamanders in combat if the first thing you touch when you charge is a Skink Handler.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:56 pm**

/\\//\,

Bad news, you have to kill EVERY skink in the salamnder unit.

They are a pack, not individual units. And if you kill 1 skink you can still fire the next round.

I am sorry but you cant do much about Chameleon Skinks, as they like to be in forests close to you. This means you need 5's to hit them close range and single shot. They will most likely come out after your army has moved on and kill your RBT's and wizards.

If you play against a southlands army you probably wont get chillwind off, as they can have 2 lvl 2 wizards and have 9 or more Dispel dice. SL armies can also have 5 skink priests in the army for cheap point cost.

Even though I play as the lizzies, I can tell you what kills skinks. Do not go after them with hth units. That is what they want you to do. Do not go after them with dark riders, they will most likely kill them by standing and shooting. DO shoot them. Your RC units will decimate skinks.

Skinks are evil. I love them. One of the best units in the game IMO.

Have any of you played against a Skink horde or a Guerrilla warfare army yet ? If you havent smile and be happy and hope you never will. !lol!

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 8:57 pm**

In a small game, say 1000pts, you can fit in kroxigors and saurus cavalry. I can deal with one of the units, but I would get loads of trouble with the other unit. As both of them are pretty fast, march blocking don't work too well, but it hinders them a little bit. Shooting them down is quite hard too.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 9:15 pm**

Soteks Chosen_ wrote:/\\//\,

Bad news, you have to kill EVERY skink in the salamnder unit.

They are a pack, not individual units. And if you kill 1 skink you can still fire the next round.

I was talking about killing them with Chillwind. If a unit suffers a single wound from Chillwind it can't shoot at all in its next shooting phase.

If you play against a southlands army you probably wont get chillwind off, as they can have 2 lvl 2 wizards and have 9 or more Dispel dice. SL armies can also have 5 skink priests in the army for cheap point cost.

But with their T of 2 they make Elves look like they have high strength! Also with all our fast stuff we can get to them fairly quickly.

Even though I play as the lizzies, I can tell you what kills skinks. Do not go after them with hth units. That is what they want you to do. Do not go after them with dark riders, they will most likely kill them by standing and shooting. DO shoot them. Your RC units will decimate skinks.

Shooting? Hmm, firing multishots at them at short range without moving still requires 5+ to hit.

Posted: **Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:01 pm**

well in the original problem i'd say that once one skink unit is WIPED OUT by magic/shooting then the way is clear, just concentrate fire on each unit in turn, then bring on the CoKs/chariots/execs.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:16 am**

Ok, I did not know you were talking about chillwind.
Yes, that would work if you got the spell off.

Well, skinks dont reallt need a higher T, because they are so darn fast they can avoid all but the fastest calvary. If you are playing a decent Lizardmen player he will make sure to always stay out of your charge arc and basically fallow that unit the whole game while pelting them with javelins.
This is why I said shooting is your best bet. That and magic, but it is always inpredicable and i would not rely on it.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:36 am**

alkanoon wrote:I havent tried this yet but if my opponet have Chamilion skins he will have no problem getting behind my line.... what can you do about that?

Soteks Chosen_ wrote:Well, skinks dont reallt need a higher T, because they are so darn fast they can avoid all but the fastest calvary. If you are playing a decent Lizardmen player he will make sure to always stay out of your charge arc and basically fallow that unit the whole game while pelting them with javelins.
This is why I said shooting is your best bet. That and magic, but it is always inpredicable and i would not rely on it.

The solutions to both Skink problems are Nobels on foot with a good armour save and a ward save.

With a 360 degree line of sight it is hard to get a unit of chamilion Skinks behind your lines.
Also the same line of sight makes avoiding HtH units much tougher.
And a charging Nobel is very hard to hit, whlie even a single causaulty will draw the combat (outnumber is the only bonus they will get). When the skinks are routed join a unit to bolster the main fight.

Also to combat the skinks using the scar-vets Ld cast as many magic missiles as possible while leaving 3 dice. Now activate all your bound spells. Then hope you have taken Death for Doom and Darkness!
Now with a -3Ld to the tests for panic due to the causilties made at the end of the Magic phase you should see them run and as a benifit the -3Ld will be present on all units, much eaiser to break them.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:45 am**

Hmm, the real bane to the DEs exsitance is the SBSOD (speed boosting Saurus of Doom). This is a Saurus Battle Stnadart bearer with the Totem of Haunchi, he tends to be on a cold one too. He also tends to have the Mark of Tepoc Sotek or Quetzl.
This Guy has a 14 inch move joins a unit and than gives it an undispellable extra move.
He makes a Carnsaur with OB a much more fritging epxect, the Carnie move into a flanking position, the Speed booster joins him, activetes his banner and voila you have 2 Saurus Chars and a Carrnosaur in your flank.
Not that you cannot flee from this charge, in addition, the Scar vet deals out 4S5 attacks with a 2 or 3+ save, meaning that he is still better than some CC heros.
he can also be used to hunt mages, There is no real way your mages could hide from him.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 1:27 pm**

Mightypeon wrote:Hmm, the real bane to the DEs exsitance is the SBSOD (speed boosting Saurus of Doom). This is a Saurus Battle Stnadart bearer with the Totem of Haunchi, he tends to be on a cold one too. He also tends to have the Mark of Tepoc Sotek or Quetzl.
This Guy has a 14 inch move joins a unit and than gives it an undispellable extra move.
He makes a Carnsaur with OB a much more fritging epxect, the Carnie move into a flanking position, the Speed booster joins him, activetes his banner and voila you have 2 Saurus Chars and a Carrnosaur in your flank.
Not that you cannot flee from this charge, in addition, the Scar vet deals out 4S5 attacks with a 2 or 3+ save, meaning that he is still better than some CC heros.
he can also be used to hunt mages, There is no real way your mages could hide from him.

Remeber that item is one use only. Try and use a unit of Dark Riders or Shades to bait him into using that spell. Sacrifice the unit and use the time he is in combat to position your troops into flanking positions etc.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 2:13 pm**

I've been thinking lately of trying out a unit of 10 Cold One Knights with the War Banner lately against our scaly enemies. With their 2+ save shooting won't really harm them and as long as you keep them out of the way of Kroxigors then they should go through Saurus units fairly easily using autobreak. As the hard hitting Lizardmen stuff is also quite slow they should be hard to catch. Magic is the only thing that really concerns me (and stupidity).

Anyone tried this?

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 4:46 pm**

its a surer bet than most of our units, /\\//\, but it is vulnerable to saurus units if they don't run on the first turn of combat. (i'm pretty sure there are lots of units capable of outnumbering 10CoKs in a saurus army)

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 5:39 pm**

Aekoldar Helbrass wrote:its a surer bet than most of our units, /\\//\, but it is vulnerable to saurus units if they don't run on the first turn of combat. (i'm pretty sure there are lots of units capable of outnumbering 10CoKs in a saurus army)

Perhaps add a BSB with Hydra Banner in there. It's expensive yes but so are the units its designed to break (Saurus/Temple Guard etc).

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 6:13 pm**

I wud try a total new approach.
Have a good fire base 2xRBT anf two units of 10 RXB. You then have one RBT and one unit of RxB firing on one unit of skinks and the others on too another unit of skinks.
I would then take summit like a block of executioners with a noble (BSB), flanked by two units of 16 warriors. These can engage head on with thoses blocks of saurus.
I would then go for a flanking force of a unit of DR on each flank also with a unit of 10RxB with shields on each flank. This means you advance them until there in a good x fire position too either kill any skins milling about causing you hassel or to weaken some sauras or take out thoses skink priests. Have sum magic support to weaken there advance or strengthen yours and then go for a desent fighter to help deal with thoses old bluds.

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:23 pm**

Denthor wrote:I wud try a total new approach.
Have a good fire base 2xRBT anf two units of 10 RXB. You then have one RBT and one unit of RxB firing on one unit of skinks and the others on too another unit of skinks.
I would then take summit like a block of executioners with a noble (BSB), flanked by two units of 16 warriors. These can engage head on with thoses blocks of saurus.
I would then go for a flanking force of a unit of DR on each flank also with a unit of 10RxB with shields on each flank. This means you advance them until there in a good x fire position too either kill any skins milling about causing you hassel or to weaken some sauras or take out thoses skink priests. Have sum magic support to weaken there advance or strengthen yours and then go for a desent fighter to help deal with thoses old bluds.

Just out of curiosity: How much points does this go for? If i make a quick count by doing so you have spent about 1500 points to break the lizardman defence, and you don't even have a general or magic stuff. adivce is nice, you don't need to write the entire army list and tactics for them

Posted: **Mon Aug 09, 2004 11:12 pm**

Guys,
Skinks:
1 Don't shoot them (too many factors against you)
-1 Skirmishers
-1 most likley long range
-1 RxB double shots
-1 If RxB unit has moved
-1 if they decide to charge
You'll rarely get them to panic due to cold bloodednes
RBT are wasted on targeting skinks

Charge them with Chariots (immune to poison)
or
Use the following spells to great effect:
Pit of Shades
Black Horror (making sure 5" template touches multiple units)
Chillwind (stated above)
Fog of Death (Dark Emissary spell--it will cause multiple wounds an panic tests immediately.

There are a host of other spells that will bring them down.

Lastly, SKinks aren't worth many VP. Keep that in mond--your enemy wants you to concentrate on them--go after better targets.

Posted: **Tue Aug 10, 2004 12:18 am**

I find that Chariots, Cold One Knights, and Hydras are all good tools for dealing with Skinks. Especially Chariots as they cannot be poisoned and are T5

Posted: **Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:15 am**

Zentaricai wrote:Guys,
-1 if they decide to charge

That made me laugh. A good skink general will just play with you using skinks. The object is to keep the skinks out of combat all together, and just make you waste units trying to counter a 70 point unit of 10 scouting skinks.

Honestly, shooting is the best answer, or a lone noble on a steed (though shooting might wreak him). You need somehting that can hit them without giving them the option to flee. Otherwise its a points game in which the lizardman player can rarly lose.

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