Question on challenges...

Mr_styrofoam · Post by **Mr_styrofoam** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:11 pm

Hey guys, I was playing a beginner battle at my local GW (1000 pts DE vs Dwarfs), and I decided to issue a challenge with my master who was in a unit of spearmen who had charged against a thane in a unit of longbeards. After the challenge was over (my master won yay), I picked up dice to make my warriors' attacks, and I was told by the GW staff that only the characters fight in a challenge. I was surprised by that, so I checked the rulebook when I got home, but I don't see anywhere that they specify either case. There are a couple passages that hint that the whole unit fights but nothing that I'd consider definitive.

(pg. 77 "Note also that occasionally the presence of two characters engaged in a challenge may stop other models from fighting at all if the only enemy model they are in base contact with is the character.")

So my question is, what is the ruling on that, and if the GW staff are wrong, can I get a page number in the rulebook so I can show them? Thanks!

Post by **Rork** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:16 pm

The GW staff are hilariously wrong.

There isn't a page reference as such - basically the challenge rules do not stop any other models attacking, so you resolve their attacks as normal.

You run through the stages for resolving a combat, and the challenge rules do not alter those.

Post by **Dalamar** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:16 pm

If your unit could attack the opposing unit, they're free to make those attacks.
The only restriction is that during a round in which challenge is fought, nobody but the characters engage in the challenge can attack those duelling characters.

the pg 77 you quoted is a situation where there's a model that is not in a challenge, but only in base to base contact with the character fighting a challenge. In which case he's not attacking anyone as he can't attack the character, and he's not in base contact with anyone else.

As far as rulings go, GW staff is wrong in about 90% of the cases. (they're sometimes right, but very rarely)

Thenick18 · Post by **Thenick18** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:59 pm

Fluff wise, it means, there is an epic duel going on and both sides cease combat to watch their respected heroes go at it. Once the duel is complete that round the armies get back to fighting each other, hopefully inspired by the duel outcome.

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:05 pm

thenick18 wrote:Fluff wise, it means, there is an epic duel going on and both sides cease combat to watch their respected heroes go at it. Once the duel is complete that round the armies get back to fighting each other, hopefully inspired by the duel outcome.

If an epic duel between two heroes started next to me, and the opponent lay down his weapons to watch, I'd cut his head off :twisted:

It's as simple as Rork and Dalamar put it.
To put it into your own example to make it simpler:

The thane and master are in a challenge, they attack each other.
The warriors can't attack the thane, and the longbeards can't attack the master.
The longbeards can attack the warriors, and the warriors can attack the longbeards.

And, as Rork said, any warriors in base contact with the thane but no longbeards (and would normally only be able to attack the thane) can not attack, as the thane is in a challenge. And visa-versa for any longbeards in contact with the master but no dark elf warriors.

Mr_styrofoam · Post by **Mr_styrofoam** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:06 pm

I see. Thanks for the help, I'll see if I can find an appropriate way to tell them they're wrong haha.

Post by **Dalamar** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:10 pm

Here's the way:

"You're wrong, read the rules"

Post by **Kinslayer** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:12 pm

Mr_Styrofoam wrote:I see. Thanks for the help, I'll see if I can find an appropriate way to tell them they're wrong haha.

Just go in, hand them their rulebook, and say 'Alright, where does it say a unit can't attack another unit if the characters in those units are in a challenge?'

They'll probably pretend they never said they couldn't :roll:

Kaseliegth · Post by **Kaseliegth** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:25 pm

In my GW they make up the rules as they go on.

If you played against someone who is just getting in to warhammer they might of done this to stop you killing everything of his. So they make it more fun for your oppenent. The sad thing is that he will go off and play as he has been told.

Mr_styrofoam · Post by **Mr_styrofoam** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:31 pm

Yeah, when I've just been watching games, I've noticed that they tend to ignore a lot of rules to streamline the beginner battles. Although, to be fair, they are often teaching the swarm of 11-year olds with no attention span who frequent my store...

Demetrius · Post by **Demetrius** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:55 am

Mr_Styrofoam wrote:Although, to be fair, they are often teaching the swarm of 11-year olds with no attention span who frequent my store...

You have that problem too, eh? I hate watching the little kids at my local store game... on Friday night I saw them playing, an hour later their models had moved 6 inches towards eachother... and like 3 models had been killed. No joke.