I <3 Hellcannons
Moderator: The Dread Knights
I <3 Hellcannons
So I started trying out WoC today, 2 3k games. First game vs daemons I lost (I played pretty terribly, and in a banners game you really need more than BSB gen and 1 standard). Oddly the general died first after being raped by Fateweaver's spell barrage. Notable performances by hellcannons, those sexy little beasts <3.
I hadn't even realised they were unbreakable at this point. They are possibly my favourite thing now, and this is a special topic about my love for them. In shooting they murdered ~10 flamers, held up a horde of bloodletters with skulltaker and a BSB through a misfire result (praying for miscast, but still) and just generally kicked ass. I lost the game, sure, but the army they perform least well against still let them earn their place in my heart. Apologies for soppyness.
In my second game, they had less opportunity to perform. 2 of them were held in reserve, and first turn did a meager one wound to a stegadon, but by my turn 2 shooting phase my opponent had already folded (one steg already down from combat, purple sun killing the slaan, an ancient steg and a chunky unit of saurus), but their sheer killing power forced my opponent to play this way.
To summarise: they can devastate single models, wipe elite units, hold their own in combat, they're hella tough and they are unbreakable. The kicker? 1/6 of my miscasts can destroy my opponents magic capabilities and often take chunks out of whatever unit their in.
Just as executioner made me fall in love with DE, so hellcannons have tainted my heart with chaos.
What models/units have made you fall in love with your armies? Any fun stories attached?
Congrats for reading this far
I hadn't even realised they were unbreakable at this point. They are possibly my favourite thing now, and this is a special topic about my love for them. In shooting they murdered ~10 flamers, held up a horde of bloodletters with skulltaker and a BSB through a misfire result (praying for miscast, but still) and just generally kicked ass. I lost the game, sure, but the army they perform least well against still let them earn their place in my heart. Apologies for soppyness.
In my second game, they had less opportunity to perform. 2 of them were held in reserve, and first turn did a meager one wound to a stegadon, but by my turn 2 shooting phase my opponent had already folded (one steg already down from combat, purple sun killing the slaan, an ancient steg and a chunky unit of saurus), but their sheer killing power forced my opponent to play this way.
To summarise: they can devastate single models, wipe elite units, hold their own in combat, they're hella tough and they are unbreakable. The kicker? 1/6 of my miscasts can destroy my opponents magic capabilities and often take chunks out of whatever unit their in.
Just as executioner made me fall in love with DE, so hellcannons have tainted my heart with chaos.
What models/units have made you fall in love with your armies? Any fun stories attached?
Congrats for reading this far
- Lord damian valar
- Cold One Knight
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:36 am
- Location: the Netherlands
Got a bit of strange taste from this post. It's like posting on a High Elf forum how much you love the Hydra and how awesome it is.
Also, simply putting in a couple of Hellcannons and then throwing purple suns on your lizardmen opponent does not sound like a very fun game in my opinion for either side.
Also, simply putting in a couple of Hellcannons and then throwing purple suns on your lizardmen opponent does not sound like a very fun game in my opinion for either side.
As a chaosite, i can understand your love of the hellcannon. However i feel it's only great against massed infantry - use it against any army who's usual rank size is 2 and you'll soon see lower returns on your shots.
I don't think the hellcannon is broken, because it's the only shooting chaos get (ok, marauder horsemen can throw spears or axes... doesn't quite compare to anyone else's shooting tho!).
I do, however, believe that the hellcannon should be limited to 1 per over 2000 points (so 0-2000 no hellcannon, 2000-4000 one cannon, etc)
Dual 'cannon is as mean as dual hydra, if not meaner in some cases.
Pilch
I don't think the hellcannon is broken, because it's the only shooting chaos get (ok, marauder horsemen can throw spears or axes... doesn't quite compare to anyone else's shooting tho!).
I do, however, believe that the hellcannon should be limited to 1 per over 2000 points (so 0-2000 no hellcannon, 2000-4000 one cannon, etc)
Dual 'cannon is as mean as dual hydra, if not meaner in some cases.
Pilch
2000 Pts W/L : 52%
2500 Pts W/L : 25%
2500 Pts W/L : 25%
Wow, some people really have something against 'broken' things. They do have weaknesses, like artillery? 205 points for a turn of drawn cannon shooting or some bolt throwers is certainly pretty horrific. Once the crew go they are next to uncontrollable? I hear complaints about all sorts of units, but if you won't even take on the challenge then either your generalship is lacking or your army is.
My love of the hellcannon comes from its flexibility. It can fight combats it can win, it can survive combats it loses, it can shoot high value cavalry/infantry if its around, or go for direct hits on e.g. steam tanks if there is nothing. And on top of this they are incredibly unpredictable, and have an awesome 'background'. Powerful and chaotic.
My love of the hellcannon comes from its flexibility. It can fight combats it can win, it can survive combats it loses, it can shoot high value cavalry/infantry if its around, or go for direct hits on e.g. steam tanks if there is nothing. And on top of this they are incredibly unpredictable, and have an awesome 'background'. Powerful and chaotic.
Lepaca wrote:Can Hellcannons move and shoot? That's something I have been wondering about for a while now.
Fires like a stone thrower, so no.
Last time I used a Hellcannon it misfired and exploded on turn one... typical.
In general though, it certainly is good value for 205 points. I've used it before with a great deal of success. I think too much is made of its combat ability - while it's good that it's flexible enough to do combat or shooting (though you don't get complete control over what it wants to do), it can't do both. Yeah, its shooting is good, but Empire Mortars are 75 points not 205 and it's not much better than those (better, but not 135 points better). Yeah, its combat is good, but we all know about Hydras right? Yet its never going to be both a Mortar and a Hydra at the same time - you have to pick, one or the other - so 205 points is quite an investment.
It's a powerful unit and very good value and I don't think many WoC players would really have the heart to complain too much if it was toned down a little bit... but it's not that over-powerful.
- Lord damian valar
- Cold One Knight
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- Location: the Netherlands
I do not think it is underpriced or anything. Can't say I fear them much also. No hate from me, was just referring to the way the post was made, since many many people complain about the Hellcannons (as they do about our Hydra, hence my comparison).
Only thing that bugs me a little is the way the monster/handlers rules work. Shoot the unit, roll to wound on monsters toughness, then see what you hit. Should have been the other way around it seems for me. But that is not the fault of the Hellcannon unit, but a brb rule.
Also the kill oponents casters on misfires should be scrapped I think, but thats just me...
Only thing that bugs me a little is the way the monster/handlers rules work. Shoot the unit, roll to wound on monsters toughness, then see what you hit. Should have been the other way around it seems for me. But that is not the fault of the Hellcannon unit, but a brb rule.
Also the kill oponents casters on misfires should be scrapped I think, but thats just me...
Lord Damian Valar wrote:Only thing that bugs me a little is the way the monster/handlers rules work. Shoot the unit, roll to wound on monsters toughness, then see what you hit. Should have been the other way around it seems for me. But that is not the fault of the Hellcannon unit, but a brb rule.
Hellcannon is even worse than BRB actually, if you wound the "monster" then on a 5-6 (IIRC) the handlers take the wounds anyway. And if you had to choose whether the cannon died or a Chaos Dwarf, there's not much competition!
Also the kill oponents casters on misfires should be scrapped I think, but thats just me...
No arguments here. I've actually yet to roll that result for my own Hellcannon but I don't look forward to having to explain to my opponent "Um, you know how you're celebrating that I rolled a misfire? Well..."
- Tethlis
- Malekith's Best Friend
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Over the weekend, on Turn 1, a Hellcannon killed 20 of my spearmen in one shot and reduced the unit to uselessness.
Next turn, I charged it solo with my Unkillable Dreadlord on Cold One and watched it do nothing for the next couple of turns as my Dreadlord killed it.
Everything has a counter, even nasty units. My opponent was dancing with glee as he shot at my army, thinking he was safe from warmachine hunters. I suppose he had never see a Lord choice do any warmachine hunting before.
Next turn, I charged it solo with my Unkillable Dreadlord on Cold One and watched it do nothing for the next couple of turns as my Dreadlord killed it.
Everything has a counter, even nasty units. My opponent was dancing with glee as he shot at my army, thinking he was safe from warmachine hunters. I suppose he had never see a Lord choice do any warmachine hunting before.
Last edited by Tethlis on Wed Feb 09, 2011 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Black Guard
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- Tethlis
- Malekith's Best Friend
- Posts: 1444
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:54 am
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Lepaca wrote:Talking about the Hellcannon I have a question:
Since it shoots like a Stone Thrower but is a monster instead of a warmachine, does that mean it can not move and shoot in the same turn or not?
Look 6 posts above yours and you'll find your answer.
Stonethrowers cannot move and fire, so it if fires like a stonethrower, then it cannot move and fire
Tethlis wrote:Lepaca wrote:Talking about the Hellcannon I have a question:
Since it shoots like a Stone Thrower but is a monster instead of a warmachine, does that mean it can not move and shoot in the same turn or not?
Look 6 posts above yours and you'll find your answer.
Stonethrowers cannot move and fire, so it if fires like a stonethrower, then it cannot move and fire
Sometimes I truly feel blind but that's what I get for posting stuff in the middle of the night.
But at least no moving and shooting.
I want to reassure all of you, that if your opponent has a fully made (screw painted) then they have already put so much time and effort in to their army that it is completely justified for them to use such a powerful thing.
They are a NIGHTMARE to build. There are like 30+ pieces and I can't figure out where they all go! Having 2 to build is a horrible place to be !
They are a NIGHTMARE to build. There are like 30+ pieces and I can't figure out where they all go! Having 2 to build is a horrible place to be !
- Darklady
- Corsair
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flash29 wrote:monsters and handlers rule tells us the handlers are ignored for this purpose so i assume it is on the ld4
I believe this is incorrect because:
Q: When taking a Leadership test, sometimes you have to take it on
your unmodified leadership. What is your unmodified
leadership? (p10)
A: Your unmodified Leadership is the highest Leadership
characteristic in the unit. Do not include any modifiers from
any source, for example, Strength in Numbers, Inspiring
Presence or the Doom and Darkness spell.
Q: If a Monster and Handlers unit is required to take a
Leadership test, which Leadership value can you use? (p73)
A: You must use the highest.
Though Spirit Leech is not a test, it says to use the "unmodified" Ld, which is why I posted the first Q&A. Second Q&A answers that Ld is the only time you use handler stats for tests. And for completeness here's why he answered the way he did, though the question above clearly states Ld is different.
Q: If a Monster and Handlers unit is required to take a
characteristic test, which values can you use? (p73)
A: You can only use the monsters characteristics; the handlers
are ignored for this purpose.
The unmodified Ld of the Hellcannon, assuming the handlers are alive is 9, the highest in the unit.
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. ~Seneca
Tethlis wrote:Over the weekend, on Turn 1, a Hellcannon killed 20 of my spearmen in one shot and reduced the unit to uselessness.
Next turn, I charged it solo with my Unkillable Dreadlord on Cold One and watched it do nothing for the next couple of turns as my Dreadlord killed it.
Everything has a counter, even nasty units. My opponent was dancing with glee as he shot at my army, thinking he was safe from warmachine hunters. I suppose he had never see a Lord choice do any warmachine hunting before.
Do anyone think its also viable to put a master on this job, if i he is wielding soulrender?
Thx