The group 34 OOC thread > basically dead

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Minigrift
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Post by Minigrift »

Calisson,

The group all has the same, or very similar objectives at the moment. Kayla has already agreed to help with Calis' plan. That's what her whole tirade was about. I purposely moved her away from the group afterwards so that she wouldn't be spoken to. So, that whole load of nit-picking waffle that Calis directed at her afterwards was entirely unnecessary,

"If anyone has any more insults for Kayla. don't bother" - that was a major hint to let her be, but you had to persist and not just make Kayla furious, but also... cheese me off as well!

I understand that we play our characters differently. Kayla wants to get on with the mission... You want to stand around and chat. That's cool.

Just wanted to get that off my chest, I used inoffensive language and everything!
Nathra Severain - Shade (Group 38)
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Post by Kinslayer »

Sorry Mini, but since you just broke the rules by charging Calis with the intent to kill him, I thought it best Athyia would try to intervene. I can only assume you were trying to commit RPG suicide anyway, since you openly stated that you would kill anyone who opposed you (ie, the entire group, one against four!)
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Post by Assani »

Well...., not entirely sure what to do now, or....., I guess I know. Have to agree with Kinslayer, and sorry:(
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Post by Kinslayer »

If you disagree with Athyia and try to help Kayla, she will most likely redirect the path of her ball of death your way anyway :lol:
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Post by Assani »

Hehe, I will catch it like a tennis ball, and throw it back at u :D :D
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Post by Calisson »

smiler666 wrote:no inter-character murders, never, ever, even if they annoy you, even if its on purpose, even if they take a dump in your bedroll, never - understood
smiler666, I trust your dice rolls!
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Post by Assani »

Maybe a dumb question, but how to play this? Has Kayla cooled down and all is ok? Or...?

Was two sentences away from posting before Smiler came with the mod post :D
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Post by Smiler666 »

I believe Mini is done with us, mostly due to the fact that her's and Calisson's characters clash too much. To be honest it was becoming inevitable that someone would end up throwing in the towel or going on a murderous rampage to fix the group tensions. No murder rule is off for and against Kayla, send her and Mini off with a bang guys :D
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Post by Calisson »

MiniGrift wrote:Calisson,

The group all has the same, or very similar objectives at the moment. Kayla has already agreed to help with Calis' plan. That's what her whole tirade was about. I purposely moved her away from the group afterwards so that she wouldn't be spoken to. So, that whole load of nit-picking waffle that Calis directed at her afterwards was entirely unnecessary,

"If anyone has any more insults for Kayla. don't bother" - that was a major hint to let her be, but you had to persist and not just make Kayla furious, but also... cheese me off as well!

I understand that we play our characters differently. Kayla wants to get on with the mission... You want to stand around and chat. That's cool.

Just wanted to get that off my chest, I used inoffensive language and everything!
Hey MiniGrift!


As I said last month, "the difficult part is to build a group into a team; it requires the will of the roleplayers to play together rather than independently, despite of their interpretation of how independant their beloved character is."
and
"If we push that logic too far, at best we end up independently, at worse killing each other.
All of us would better imagine a good reason why, contrary to healthy general principles (such as "this guy sucks like all his kin" or "I hate everyone and the group no less"), we would develop a fancy reason why there would be an exception. "


Many times, Kayla's actions have been disturbing the group. Once there is no hurry anymore, it is the time for debriefing.
Your word about Kayla taking the lead was a nice opportunity to explain why that lead was not apreciated by the group.
It was worrisome that she took that remark angrily. Worse, the answer was showing that the same impulsivity was going to happen again and again.
I wished that you could understand why Kayla's actions made the group unconfortable and prevented members of the group to find their appropriate spot.

If you understood that, you'd be still welcome to "cool off" Kayla.
If you like only action and don't want to participate to any reflexion nor abide by any decision taken by the group, then, sadly, the best is to leave the group, indeed - preferably in a spectarular way, in order to remain in as good terms as possible.


@ Smiler666
Isn't it time to change the RPG 34 title?
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Post by Smiler666 »

From what I have seen in group 31 and here, I think that Mini enjoys making a fluffy character and RPing how that character would behave. As it says on the TV: the characters and thier views are entirely fictional and are in no way a reflection of the player behind them, the mod, or D.net as a whole.
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Post by Minigrift »

Smiler has the crux of the matter. I made her rather obtuse on purpose, if I had anticipated any of the upset that may have caused, then I would have done things differently.

Calis put Kayla (and me) into a tight spot, the only action Kayla would make is to kill Calis as that IS precisely what she would have done under the circumstances - I did not want to do that, of course. But I still feel that your post was totally unnecessary (just as you guys will likely think my last RP post was unnecessary). Kayla hasn't actually killed anyone, the intent is there, but it's still actually yet to happen... I don't want it to happen, just as I didn't it to in the first place. Next post, she might faint, collapse or whatever, or she manages to quell the blood boiling inside her - assuming that I will be allowed 'a next post', anyway.

At the end Kayla had given in and conceded to help with the plan, as her objectives coincided with every one else's, I even tried adding in a little humour - tea and cakes, anyone? It's good to have a little tension and what not in inter-group relationships. Kayla is very impetuous, she see's a goal and she goes for that goal, she doesn't stop to think about it. That's how she is just now, she is/was going to change, it just takes time to implement that change. She needs to become accustomed to being a member of society.

I just felt Calis took his nit-picking shenanigans at Kayla's expense WAY too far, which is why I got upset. You might say I gave Calisson the spade, and he dug the hole. A sentence or two or a paragraph would have been totally fine, but you filled up an entire page!! Surely Calis would have known (I thought he was supposed to be intelligent?) that his angering Kayla would not be a wise thing to do.

Well, it's up to Smiler if he wants to keep me or not. If not then I will remove Kayla from the group and place her back in the character pool. I would still like to play, will just have to keep Kayla on a much tighter leash than I have done thus far. As is evident, you guys can get upset by my actions just as I can get upset by your actions. As I say though, it takes time for someone to change, it won't happen overnight.
Last edited by Minigrift on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Skills; Acrobatics; Basic Stealth; Free Running
Equipment: Longsword; Shurikens (6/10); Shade Cloak; Asur Arm & Leg Armour Plates; Misericorde; Gutting Knife
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Post by Silic »

Tis the woes of playing an RPG where the race, at its core, mistrusts one another.

But remember that to make things work, sometimes concessions of fluff must be made for the group, and vice-versa.
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Post by Smiler666 »

I thought you were full on giving up Mini, but if you're still happy to play on and if everyone (mostly just Cal and Mini) can make compromises for each others character fluff then Kayla is still welcome by me. Though she will still get thrown off the tower, it's just too awesome a scene to pass up :twisted: I'm sure having a daemon possessing you gives some regenerative ability - even if it is for mod use only ;) What say the people?
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Post by Kinslayer »

While I agree with what Mini is saying and I wasn't upset by any of the posts in the game so far (as it's all IC [in character] and none of it is personal!). The thing is, our characters are all individual and independant in their own way. To come together as a group they have to come together as a team, which means making certain compromises. For example, I doubt Athyia would have spoken to anyone at all so far unless spoken to, because she is quiet and gloomy (not shy, just not talkative). I did throw some dialogue in however because the other characters didn't seem like they wanted to talk either and we were at a standstill.

I'm happy with things the way they are. If Kayla starts on Cali'Shad but we all intervene, isn't that just another "team building exercise" afterall :lol:
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Post by Calisson »

Calisson wrote:I wished that you could understand why Kayla's actions made the group unconfortable and prevented members of the group to find their appropriate spot.

If you understood that, you'd be still welcome to "cool off" Kayla.



Kayla lives in her world, fine.
Refusing discussion, threatening your team, knocking a door when the plan was deception, killing the only prisoner before questioning him, killing a team's mate "because of an unnecessary post", this is not a team's work.
See Athya, Kithai & Sangui's reactions to these last tree events. There are limits to fluffy actions.


I can compromise a lot about fluff.
I cannot compromise about working as a team, at least most of the time, because this is the essence of RPG - except Shadow Arena and the like, of course.
Have Kayla behave sometimes fluffily, fine, that's fun. But the group has still to be able to work as a team.


About compromise, Calis'Shad did learn that Kayla had her sensibility. Acknowledge that he did not talk to Kayla from post 18 to post 110. Acknowledge that when long posts didn't work, he tried short posts. Acknowledge that he did not react to Kayla's provocations when others were ready to cut flesh.
See that Calis'Shad did not even take his crossbow as Kayla is walking to kill him. How far compromising needs to be done?

Sometimes, we need to discuss. Sangui tried to talk to Kayla, he was nearly cut off his hand on the spot. This fluff cannot lead the group anywhere.
It's time that Kayla compromised too, for example by accepting that her actions be criticized in public after she criticized everyone else's.

Be prepared that next time she criticizes anyone, she will get an answer about the good deeds made by the criticised person - this is vital for the group's cohesion.
Be prepared that next time she boasts about her good actions, there will be a remainder about why other people did not apreciated these actions. This is vital for the group to learn how to act as a team.
Be prepared that if she does not understand gentle words, she will hear harsh words.
Criticism never means to be punished, or removed for the group, or threatened or killed. It has to be accepted, for the team's sake.

Calis'Shad wisdom is not to let Kayla do whatever she wants. His wisdom is to have her act in the group's interest - or leave the group.

If we are to act as a team, we better learn about each other.
It requires a thorough explanation at some point.
As we are out of battle, this is the time.



I'd like to see Kayla staying - alive - in the group, with a fluffy heroic control she would recover over the demon in her blood.
But what concession about her fluff is she - are you - willing to do for the sake of the group?
Keep control on your fluff.
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Post by Assani »

I would like to keep Kayla in our group :D . Instead of lashing out with my swords, I can use the the handle of the swords to get her of balance, so she may snap out of it. But I guess the ball from the mage is coming no mather what :) .

Let's just clear the air, and move on :lol:
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Post by Smiler666 »

So the final decision appears to be that Mini and Kayla be allowed to stay, albeit a bit roughed up, so long as a bit of compromise can happen. I shall get on that right away.
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Post by Darkdoom »

Wow this is the OCC doom...
I think fluff is the most important thing in RPGs. You cant' do anything your character wouldn't do. But you still have a range of options to alter your actions, being sensible has to be part of your character. Being sensible can mean you don't charge somebody, but but leave the room (or roof) silently.

Well I wasn't that smart in my last RPG and went to kill my teammate, something I don't regret, it fitted perfectly to his fluff, an worthy but undignified end for him. If I remember correctly his corps was hidden in some box and his head should be still on the belt of some mad man. He was just to proud a shade.

That's why I gave my new character some more positive and less negative characteristics as to avoid his to early dead.

Still if you want I can only go for a shot in the legs if ya want.
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Post by Minigrift »

Calisson, I understand what you are saying, as you have said it numerous times already. Maybe I should have at least acknowledged it earlier, but I have been rather irate of late, which might go some way into explaining my irrational behaviour.

Just to try and clear the air between us, I will explain a little about Kayla. When I RP I really get into my characters, I don't like to play conventional characters either. For example, Nathra is a shade, yet she has never been part of a clan, she never went through the right of passage. She was born and raised as a noble, yet she has spent most of her life in the wilderness fending for herself. She enjoys a good fight, she likes to talk, she especially enjoys the company of males for entirely 'non-sexual' relationships.

Kayla is an whole other kettle of fish. Her whole life has been dedicated to fighting, she thrives on it. She does not like to talk, but if you chip away at the rough edges, she can be rather amusing. Like when Calis annoyed her first the first time, she went on about Khaine having a sense of humour, and when they assaulted the castle, she said she would knock as it was the 'polite thing to do'. Again with the tea and cakes, could you imagine a bunch of druchii having a picnic in the countryside? That's almost farcical. She has been very angry because she's in a totally new environment with people she has never met before which made her feel really uncomfortable, but I have tried to inject humour into it - obviously, that's failed dismally.

When Kayla feels uncomfortable she will lash out at anyone who accelerates that feeling. From the start all Kayla has wanted to do is get back to the ship by the quickest available means, which, in her mind, was to finish the mission. She wants to get back so the group can have revenge, not just her - I can't say anything else about it without ruining future posts. Kayla did not ask to lead, she didn't choose to lead, and she didn't ask anyone to follow her. She would have went right ahead and assaulted the castle, even if she had to go do it all by herself.

A century of constant fighting and strife has dulled her mind to everything else. Every friend she has ever had (which, wasn't many) has died in battle in the many chaos incursions into dark elf territory. Nobody likes her, but she is well respected as she is a very capable fighter, she wouldn't be the leader of her garrison if she wasn't. She is quickly angered and extremely stubborn, but if you break through that icy disregard for others feelings and opinions, she can be a very loyal friend and will protect them to the death. Which, coincidentally, is all Kayla's wants, to die in battle as she feels she has nothing to live for...

Maybe if I had elaborated on her personality and background a lot more when I made her, you guys would understand her a bit better. I have been playing her as intended and will continue to do so, however, I will try to explain her actions a little more and might make her stop to think about the others... occasionally. For me, everything was fine and dandy until we got to the roof, after that, things quickly got out of hand and it was probably my fault.

I really like what you guys have done after she'd turned daemonic. If you can 'beat the daemon out of her' and she can remain in the group, then I shall apply a little more thought into her future actions. At the moment I will leave it up to you guys to play this scenario out, and I will take over as Kayla once she has come to her senses again.

Would that be okay with you guys?

Wow, I don't think I've ever talked this much. Ever!

As for keeping control of my fluff, I can't even grow a proper beard so that shouldn't be a problem!
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Post by Calisson »

Hey, Mini, you're welcome to stay with us, of course!

Humour is a very difficult thing to share, and it's much more difficult with foreign people such as Assani or myself. Keep writing nonsense!

Kayla's fluff is fantastic, and the demon taking control was an awesome description. If you know the medieval epic story of "Cuchulain", when he goes berserk, you'll understand what I mean by awesome. If you don't know, read wiki.


It would ease the group's management as a team
- if you could find a reason why Kayla would refrain from killing any teammate, and
- if she would act according to what everybody else agreed on. Not all the time, of course (keep some fun stupid acts for a good laugh), but a majority of the time would be fine.


Sorry if I need many words to express myself. I may change that when I become more fluent in English. ;)
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Post by Smiler666 »

Calisson wrote:Humour is a very difficult thing to share, and it's much more difficult with foreign people such as Assani or myself. Keep writing nonsense!

Calisson wrote:Sorry if I need many words to express myself. I may change that when I become more fluent in English. ;)


now that's just hypocrisy :lol:
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Post by Calisson »

smiler666 wrote:now that's just hypocrisy :lol:
Not Ze List, ay ken speek wiZ ah fRensh accente wain you want uh. Eet RikwaRe uh Lot off wuRk too tohk coRRecteLy ingLeesh.



Also...
Why do I remember that story ?
There's a duck going to a pub: <talking with a duck's voice> "Hello! Do you have any duck food? :) - No we don't.:| - Never mind, bye!"
The next day, the same duck goes to the same pub. "Hello! Do you have any duck food? :) - No we don't! :evil: - Never mind, bye!"
The next day, the duck goes to that pub again. "Hello! Do you have any duck food? :) - No we don't, and if you ever ask that again, :twisted: I'll nail you on the door! - Never mind, bye!"
The next day, here comes the duck once more. "Hello! Do you have any nail? :) - Uh? No we don't. :? - Do you have any duck food? :D"
...
Ah, yes, the reason why this story came to my mind was as an example of the difficulty to communicate when you're afflicted by a duckish accent. :lol:
Last edited by Calisson on Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:02 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Post by Assani »

Don't get me started on my Norwlish :lol:
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Post by Minigrift »

Hey guys!

You know I wouldn't have said anything if I didn't feel it was necessary. Am glad we got it all sorted out like civilised people. And apologies to anyone if I gave you a headache... hehe

If Calis wants to talk to Kayla, keep it short... I don't want to have to read through pages of inane dialogue without an opportunity to respond. And, just in the extremely slightest chance that you hadn't guessed, Kayla can't stand people who talk too much, she's much like me, in that regard at least... Anyway, she has one good reason for not wanting to kill any of you :lol:

Read over the story of Cuchulain yesterday, interesting stuff. Surprised I'd never heard of it before since stuff like that interests me.

Now that I've had to explain Kayla a bit, I feel she has lost a bit of her charm and mystery, but if it makes things easier for you guys not to get the wrong impression, then it's probably for the best!

Hopefully she'll break free of her bonds, because you guys seem to have all gone off and left her talking to herself!
Nathra Severain - Shade (Group 38)
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Equipment: Longsword; Shurikens (6/10); Shade Cloak; Asur Arm & Leg Armour Plates; Misericorde; Gutting Knife
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Post by Calisson »

Calis’Shad wrote:A god must watch for her. We have to abide by that.
Calis'Shad has shown to be very religious (to the point of converting the Mod to mention Anath Raema - be She blessed ;) ), he won't interfere with the god's decisions.
That's why he will not mention her attempt to kill him.
On the contrary, he believes know that she is unkillable in combat, which makes her highly valuable.


Calis’Shad wrote:I hope you made not too ugly a scar, she does not need that.
He might "unwillingly" tease her sometimes, still... :D
(read again the story of the duck, just above).


For the future relationships between Kayl and Cal,
Cal will recall that she wants not to be talked to unless dire emergency, and with minimal number of letters: 6 words sentences such as "let's go", "charge", "U go 1st".

I don't expect much participation from her to the decision process for which he likes long explanations.
If you like, I can make a short summary once everyone else agrees on a course of action (we agreed already about the goal but not about how to achieve it best).



MiniGrift wrote:Read over the story of Cuchulain yesterday, interesting stuff. Surprised I'd never heard of it before since stuff like that interests me.
Do you know "The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún"?
Wiki details a lot the story as assembled by J. R. R. Tolkien.
It comes from a real saga made after old medieval legends, which include references to Atli = Attila the Hun. Tolkien has remained very close to the original saga (I can testify, I have two versions of the Nibelung's legend).
The story as reported by wiki is rather long. If you want only the most dramatic part, see the very end: "The New Lay of Gudrun", the paragraph starting with "Viking funerals" in blue text and the following. It describes how Gudrun gets vengeance from her husband Atli.
Please don't take too much inspiration for Kayla...
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