End Times: Khaine

How to beat those cowardly High Elves?

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Calisson
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Calisson »

van Awful wrote:Will we be merging the different Fora as well? :mrgreen:
That would make sense.
Following GW logics, Asrai.org would be the remaining one (Ulthuan.net would sink and Druchii.net would be abandoned) :?
and us Druchii would rule the unified website. :twisted:
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Dark reaper »

Thraundil wrote:My thought on an uncomped endtimes list at 2400 points:

Malekith, the Eternity King
Master on dark pegasus, charmed shield, talisman of preservation, BSB, lance

600 pts worth of glade guards, about half trueflight, half hagbane

4 Reaper Bolt Throwers
4 Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers

Shoot everything, wood elf core is naturally great at hitting, Malekith can punish peoples toughness, and he + the master can tagteam stuff in close combat.

Consider that hagbane tips will make short work of most war machines, and Malekiths insane maneuverability, if you can get him into close combat with the opposition magic user asap, there is nothing left on the battlefield that could pressure him.

Malekith can move 40" per turn, and if he gets a steed of shadows cast off, that is upped to 60". You deploy him out of sight of magic, and on your own turn 1 he moves literally to any point on the battlefield which he chooses. Often behind the opposition character bunker. Barring magical attacking opponents (whom he can kill very fast should the need arise), nothing can touch him once he is in close combat. Only thing to look out for is people with 2+ vs fire - and even those guys will sometimes fail a ward save... With 9 ASF attacks, you just need one to get through to kill a regular lord.


He can't move 40". His special ability substitutes a units movement with a 20" ethereal move. It will still be really great on units like Witch Elves/White Lions/any infantry unit though.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Thraundil »

Oh. I read it wrong then =) I thought it happened in the magic phase.

Well. Steed of shadows, then =) often your opponent will want to dispel other spells. Also, the end times shadow signature can, I assume, be cast on the wizard himself, using the line of sight that he had at the moment of casting?
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by jeffman »

Dark reaper wrote:
Thraundil wrote:My thought on an uncomped endtimes list at 2400 points:

Malekith, the Eternity King
Master on dark pegasus, charmed shield, talisman of preservation, BSB, lance

600 pts worth of glade guards, about half trueflight, half hagbane

4 Reaper Bolt Throwers
4 Eagle Claw Bolt Throwers

Shoot everything, wood elf core is naturally great at hitting, Malekith can punish peoples toughness, and he + the master can tagteam stuff in close combat.

Consider that hagbane tips will make short work of most war machines, and Malekiths insane maneuverability, if you can get him into close combat with the opposition magic user asap, there is nothing left on the battlefield that could pressure him.

Malekith can move 40" per turn, and if he gets a steed of shadows cast off, that is upped to 60". You deploy him out of sight of magic, and on your own turn 1 he moves literally to any point on the battlefield which he chooses. Often behind the opposition character bunker. Barring magical attacking opponents (whom he can kill very fast should the need arise), nothing can touch him once he is in close combat. Only thing to look out for is people with 2+ vs fire - and even those guys will sometimes fail a ward save... With 9 ASF attacks, you just need one to get through to kill a regular lord.


He can't move 40". His special ability substitutes a units movement with a 20" ethereal move. It will still be really great on units like Witch Elves/White Lions/any infantry unit though.



Haa i'm frendzy bating your hord of witches with my cheap doggies so i can charge them in the flank next turn with my unit that will loose in the front.

hey my witches are nou etherial and move 20". Bam 1" away from the front of your big block of soon to be nothing!! in your face frenzy bate !

sorry got a bit carried away there
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Diobarach »

Seems with lore of dark and power of darkness you can generate a lot of power dice. A level 4 (with sacrificial dagger) can keep casting power of darkness with 1 die to generate pretty much unlimited power dice unless you get unlucky with failing to cast (33% chance) and with the sacrificial dagger. Every time you cast with 1 dice you have a 67% chance to get 1 or 2 extra power dice.

EDIT: Or I suppose if opponent dispels a spell, you cannot cast it again in that magic phase?
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Dalamar »

Warlocks knowing all Death and Dark spells
Sisters of Twilight knowing all Life and Beasts spells.

Horrors knowing all Tzeentch spells.

Loremasters of Hoeth knowing ALL BRB spells.

On top of that I believe Malekith in Eternal King form is the best wizard in game. Period.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by reynakzhen »

Would be hilarious if you were able to cast power of darkness so many times that you got like 50 power dice to play with. Then switch to doom bolt until she failed to cast. Then continue casting doom bolt from one unit of warlocks until they fail to cast it, then switch to the 2nd unit of warlocks.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Diobarach »

I think there is still an upper limit of 12 power dice at any one time. But I was thinking level 4 with sac dagger and ruby ring of ruin. Just keep lobbing out fireballs... You know like someone shot the food style.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Dalamar »

The 12pd limit has been lifted fo end times magic.
as long as it's not dispelled and the casting value is met, we can keep casting PoD until we run out of... targets.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Gidean »

Dalamar wrote:The 12pd limit has been lifted fo end times magic.
as long as it's not dispelled and the casting value is met, we can keep casting PoD until we run out of... targets.



And you see this as a 'good' thing Dal? Couple all this new dice rolling in the magic phase with a Chaos army involved and you are probably adding another half hour to the normal 2500 game.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Saintofm »

SO lets get this strait:

Malekeith comes to his senses and is goodish/lesser of the other evils enough to be the token evil guy on the good guy team.

Tirion and Teclic are Magnificent Bastards that readily shifted to bastard bastards.

The Everqueen is marryig the deep fried lord of all dark elves, every one has moved to the landof the High Elves and everyone is ok with this?


I take it they shut Stephanie Myrer in a room and had her watch Game of Thrones for 48 hours strait and had her write this.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Gidean »

Saintofm wrote:SO lets get this strait:

Malekeith comes to his senses and is goodish/lesser of the other evils enough to be the token evil guy on the good guy team.

Tirion and Teclic are Magnificent Bastards that readily shifted to bastard bastards.

The Everqueen is marryig the deep fried lord of all dark elves, every one has moved to the landof the High Elves and everyone is ok with this?


I take it they shut Stephanie Myrer in a room and had her watch Game of Thrones for 48 hours strait and had her write this.


I have no idea who Stephanie Myer is but you pretty much express my outrage. I actually purchased and read the William King Trilogy of Tyrion and Teclis over the last couple years. It is a nicely written story that makes the reader empathize with the protagonists. In this case two. Tyrion and Teclis. They have some flaws but in the end they are heroes. GW essentially took that beautiful story and S.H.I.T all over it! !mad! I cannot begin to express how much I hate this. At least the "Red Wedding" had some logic to it and was 'in character" of those who were involved. THIS....this story defies all sense and is totally out of character. It was poorly conceived and more poorly executed.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Haagrum »

I understand the rage that's coming for this book and the fluff/lore.

However, I really couldn't care less.

It makes perfect sense that Malekith, post-Finuval Plain, actually "gets it". He spent a century in the Warp fighting for his life, against N'Kari and many others. He saw and survived things which would have broken or killed most. He stopped being a caricatured villain and became something more complex. He still wants to rule, and he's possibly the only leader that Dark Elves would accept because he's so good at it. However, he's not just in it for revenge/the evulz any more, and he actually gives a damn about being a leader rather than just a ruler. He also has a legitimate claim to the Phoenix Throne and is sufficiently badass to save Ulthuan - because he'd prefer to rule than to destroy.

Teclis has always done what needed to be done, despite the misgivings of others. He can't afford to take a short-term view of things. He is ruled by his head, not his heart. That doesn't make him a bastard. It makes him the guy who does what he must, even if he is hated for it, because no-one else will, and because annihilation awaits his entire race if he chooses the easy path.

Tyrion... well, I've never liked that guy. To me, he always seemed like a Marty Stu of the highest order, the perfect exemplar of what I call the High Elf Ice Block Syndrome.* The Nagash book makes clear that he threatened the survival of the Asur because he wouldn't put duty before getting laid. He also tended to win through what felt like rather forced deus ex machina events - N'Kari's defeat at the Shrine of Asuryan and Poisonblade's defeat at Finuval Plain being the most glaring examples (the latter at least until 8th edition's Dark Elves book was released).

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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by van Awful »

I can sort of get from the leaders point of view, much like Haagrum says. But i wonder how they would sell it to their people.
"yeah instead of slaugthering each other, like we done for millenia, well be marching and fighting together from now on."
Even Malekith would have hard stopping his troops from murdering each other
But i haven't read the books yet, and ill keep myself from raging untill i have

didnt know if this was posted yet, most was allready known but, ill leave the page with magic rules here anyways

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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by zubus »

Hey all! long time lurker, but finally decided to sign up to share something others may not have seen yet.

This has been doing the rounds on a few places i frequent, but i have yet to see it posted anywhere here.

Warhammer: Khaine character profiles etc:

<WARNING! MASSIVE SPOILERS!!>
http://minus.com/mJ0z1co6QhQfy
</WARNING>

we've all heard of Malekith's awesomeness, but i gotta say, Alarielle is pretty damn powerful too! (I'm picturing her in a unit of say, 50 execs.. just gotta figure out how to get them re-roll to hit too)
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Amboadine »

zubus wrote:Hey all! long time lurker, but finally decided to sign up to share something others may not have seen yet.

This has been doing the rounds on a few places i frequent, but i have yet to see it posted anywhere here.

Warhammer: Khaine character profiles etc:

<WARNING! MASSIVE SPOILERS!!>
http://minus.com/mJ0z1co6QhQfy
</WARNING>

we've all heard of Malekith's awesomeness, but i gotta say, Alarielle is pretty damn powerful too! (I'm picturing her in a unit of say, 50 execs.. just gotta figure out how to get them re-roll to hit too)



Hi, welcome to the forum. Nice of you to come out of hiding to share the link.
We have had them previously they are hidden in the thread as a link.
Looks like you could make good use out of her ability to confer regen to units :)
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by jeffman »

How about putting her in a bunker behind some monsters, giving our hydras their regen back ;-) and healing extra wounds to every model every turn
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by zubus »

Amboadine wrote:Hi, welcome to the forum. Nice of you to come out of hiding to share the link.
We have had them previously they are hidden in the thread as a link.
Looks like you could make good use out of her ability to confer regen to units :)


Gah. should have known someone else would have beaten me to it.. Thanks for the welcome though.

jeffman wrote:How about putting her in a bunker behind some monsters, giving our hydras their regen back ;-) and healing extra wounds to every model every turn


the regen/wounds every turn could make a monster mash list VERY attractive. Even makes manticores look pretty viable! :O Or, just stick her in a unit next to malekith, and have him transport them around to make him truly unkillable :D I'm thinking 50 executioners/black guard, who would all get to attack thanks to horde/martial prowess/malekith.

Unfortunately you cant quite fit both in a 3k list.. 3100 works though, so might as well throw in many WE core archers and bolt throwers (up to 16 for a grand army!) as you need to round the pts out
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Dalamar »

Gidean wrote:
Dalamar wrote:The 12pd limit has been lifted fo end times magic.
as long as it's not dispelled and the casting value is met, we can keep casting PoD until we run out of... targets.



And you see this as a 'good' thing Dal? Couple all this new dice rolling in the magic phase with a Chaos army involved and you are probably adding another half hour to the normal 2500 game.


I do actually, it introduces new nuances to the magic phase, even if it means one of them is "dispel PoD at all costs". Remember one successful dispel shuts the spell down for all wizards. You also have 1/6 chance of being allowed to use just 1pd and thus failing the spell (more likely than not), again shutting the spell of.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Jolemai »

Although I wont be able to get this until the softback version is released, the more and more I read about it (granted these are people's interpretations, but still), the more and more I like it. Don't get me wrong, it's a shame we're abandoning Naggroth and Utlhuan has sunk, but it does seem feasible. Especially when it's Morathi who is apparently pulling the strings all along.

A few of the things that surprise me are that Hellebron remains neutral and that she appears on the survivor list. I would have expected her to follow the Khainites but then, she would be siding with Morathi whom she despises. Has anyone read/seen any snippets about this yet?

Also, Shadowblade is on the survivor list but not the other two, which also implies his neutrality. What part does he play and why wasn't he bumped off? Isn't their talk in the fluff about his demise quickly approaching and where is his loyalty?

Really finding this whole thing quite interesting.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Daeron »

On Hellebron:

My guess is that, once the avatar of Khaine goes down, she's free to side with whomever. It could also mean she's losing the Cult, which would make sense. I'm not sure to what extent the Cult may remain in its current form amongst the survivors. To see Morathi side with the Khaine army means it might be used by Malekith to cull the cults. He never liked them anyhow :)
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Haagrum »

van Awful wrote:I can sort of get from the leaders point of view, much like Haagrum says. But i wonder how they would sell it to their people.
"yeah instead of slaugthering each other, like we done for millenia, well be marching and fighting together from now on."
Even Malekith would have hard stopping his troops from murdering each other


I'm guessing it would have been something along these lines:

"We're all fighting together from now on."

Random individuals start to protest. With a gesture, Malekith frags them.

"Any questions?"
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Amboadine »

Dalamar wrote:I do actually, it introduces new nuances to the magic phase, even if it means one of them is "dispel PoD at all costs". Remember one successful dispel shuts the spell down for all wizards. You also have 1/6 chance of being allowed to use just 1pd and thus failing the spell (more likely than not), again shutting the spell of.



I think this is one of the nuances that has been missed with many people getting over excited at the prospect of 4D6 and no cap. Having to declare your spell then roll a die to find out the maximum number of dice that can be used to cast it make the big spells a little more risky to try and the chances of failing to cast higher.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Dalamar »

You have to declare wheter you want to boost it or not first as well.

Boosted dwellers? Well, maybe. Wanna risk it?
6-dice dwellers ftw? Only 1/6th of the time you attempt to cast it.
Multiple banishment spam? Not once one gets dispelled/fails.
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Re: End Times: Khaine

Post by Diobarach »

Under the new rules, loremaster of Hoeth with the book of Hoeth is pretty crazy. There are a multitude of spells that he only really needs 2 dice to cast, especially when combined with the book, so the d6 power dice doesn't do much to keep him in check and you only have a limited number of dispel dice to try and minimize him.

Otherwise, the d6 rule makes magic pretty unreliable for any 12+ spell, need okkam's to combat a character wall, or dweller's or purple fun for death stars, good luck...
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