Haagrum wrote:Gidean wrote:@ Haagrum:
You can house rule until the sun goes down. Nothing beats the brb magic system in my opinion. It works. Even six dicing is hit and miss and often doesn't even meet the casting value you are going for.
Don't take this the wrong way, Gidean, but when you've condemned something before even trying it, the open-mindedness of your opinion is susceptible to criticism.
I agree that the End Times magic rules are broken. The house rules I suggested address all of the concerns you have put forward, but you reject them out of hand. I don't mind the BRB rules for magic, but I often feel that magic is over-priced (points-wise) in Warhammer compared to the cost of shutting it down. The BRB rules are familiar and tested, and thus are not threatening. Something a little different keeps things more interesting. I have enough black-letter
lawrules in my day job - I'm happy for some escapism when I'm playing with toy soldiers.
I haven't played a game using End Times magic rules. I'm reasonably sure I wouldn't mind too much, as long as no-one took special characters with simultaneous access to multiple lores, a Loremaster of Hoeth, Sisters of the Thorn or Doomfire Warlocks. That such a caveat has to be stated is itself evidence of a problem with those rules.
I apologize. I did not mean to discredit the effort and thought you put into it. Your house rules would indeed make the game more balanced while adding the element of 'magic unleashed'. I guess my point is that a hundred players would come up with a hundred different set of modifications. So my comment was basically a 'rejection' of house rules as a principal. Though in fairness we were indeed using a house rule that a 'dispelled spell' was a casting failure. I think the majority of players see that as the only possible way to attempt these new rules.
Again, I meant no slight to your efforts. If I had to house rule the new magic myself I would say: 1) Keep magic focus rule; 2) Keep randomization of spell selection with everyone having access to the super spell. 3) the Super spell could be dispelled as normal. So basically you would just have magic with more spells going off per phase (about twice as many). I think we could live with that (for awhile).
All your comments about the broken aspect of Warlocks and Sisters are spot on under Khaine magic.
Note that according to a strict RAW reading, these HE & DE object are not available to ET:K combined armies.
A normal ET:K game will be a magic duel.
The one who dominates magic wins. Kill the opponent's mages, spare your own, and you win.
ET:K is as different from WH as comped WH, Storm of Magic, or Treachery & Treason.
If you play ET:K, you must adapt your army list.
If you don’t want to adapt to the specific meta, you will be frustrated and get bored, and annoy your opponent too. In that case, better not play these rules.
I agree with your summary Calisson except the magic item part. Maybe Nagash didn't spell it out very well but the English Versions of Glotkin and Khaine were pretty clear that you do use all the rules from the normal books with the exception of specific changes. Nothing states that you lose access to the magic items in those respective books.
But your summary is exactly how I see the new rules. You either play dueling wizards or you go home. So as I stated, me and mine will be playing old school. The Tournament Organizers that run the tournaments we attend (Hinge from High Elf and Chaos forums) and another gentleman will not likely incorporate Khaine magic into their tournament. I also want to say that my game was not the only one played that day. Many of my pals are school teachers and were still on their winter break. I got there after work but they had been playing games all day long. My feelings echoed theirs.