Relief of Bechafen - 2500 pts Empire in Griffon Formation

[Noble korhedron]

Hi all! For those who've not read Holy Hand Grenade(AKA HHG)'s thread located here http://warhammer-empire.com/theforum/in ... c=42921.0; this is going to be my take on his tactic of the Griffon Formation. Being at 2500 points, I have managed to squeeze in a couple of extra regiments, this being IC White Wolf Knights and Greatswords, in case my Griffon formation ends up needing extra help for some reason - well, that and I was restricted somewhat by what models I had! Any comments and critique are welcome; I have already sent a copy of this list to HHG to see what he thinks....

EDIT: Having taken comments from both here and Warhammer-Empire into account, here's the revised 2500 pts of Griffon Formation. Due to skim-reading HHG's original thread too quickly, I had missed the fact that he recommends including the Crown of Command. This list both fixes that problem and tries to take certain other comments from both here and Warhammer-Empire into account. Having been told by Fidelis Von Simmaringen that GW's most recent version of their IP policy doesn't mean I have to censor the points costs, I have compromised and left only the cost of the items on the characters, so that you can both double-check my maths if you wish, and also cost them VS any other builds you found memorable.

I'm also aware that I have approx. 17 pts left over, and was thinking about what to take to fill that gap, perhaps an extra Halberdier or two; I'm also considering dropping the Greatswords altogether, adding a couple of IC Knights and then buying a Flagellant tarpit with the remaining points to guard either the left or right flank. The IC Knights and Pistoliers will probably be a fast-moving flanking force on the same side as my Great Cannon and HBVG, with the far flank of my Griffon guarded by the Flagellant tarpit.....

Army: The Bechafen Relief Force
Race: The Empire (Men)
Player: Robert Tedders
Points: (2483) pts
Magic Lore(s): Beasts, Fire.

Lord(s):
Wizard Lord Garth Hauser (165), with Lv. 4(35), the Talisman of Preservation(45), Dispel scroll(25) and the Lore of Beasts. 270 pts
Fr. Georg Von Boch(100) with the Biting Hammer (10), the Armour of Fortune Destiny(50), Charmed shield(5) and the Crown of Command(35). 200 pts

Lord(s) total: 470 pts/18.80 %

Hero(es):
Captain Jurgen Von Boch (60), with the Tormentor Sword(5), full plate(6), Enchanted shield(5), the Dawnstone(25), the Other Trickster's Shard(15) and the Battle Standard (25). 141 pts
Wizard Johan von Boch (65), with Lv.2 (35), the Talisman of Endurance(30), a Channeling staff(15) and the Lore of Fire. 145 pts
Fr. Rudi Muller(65), with the Shrieking Hammer(10), heavy armour(2) and shield(2). 79 pts
Engineer Petr Schalk(65) with the Opal Amulet(15). 80 pts

Hero(es) total: 445 pts/17.80 %

Core:
10 Crossbowmen. 90 pts

30 Halberds with shields, standard and musician. 230 pts
Detachment: 15 Swordsmen. 105 pts
Detachment: 15 Swordsmen. 105 pts

10 Archers. 70 pts
Detachment: 5 Archers. 35 pts
Detachment: 5 Archers. 35 pts

10 Inner Circle White Wolves with musician and standard with the Banner of Swiftness. 285 pts

Core total: 955 pts/38.20 %

Special:
20 Greatswords with musician and standard with the Standard of Discipline. 255 pts

Great Cannon . 120 pts

6 Pistoliers with musician. 118 pts

Special total: 493 pts/19.72 %

Rare:
Helblaster Volley Gun. 120 pts

Rare total: 120 pts/4.80 %

[T.D.]

Thanks for the link.

Quality article!

Have you decided against the Crown of Command on your lord?

[Noble korhedron]

Thanks for the link.

Quality article!

Have you decided against the Crown of Command on your lord?

When you're asking about the Crown of Command, d'you mean me or the original poster?

[T.D.]

I was just wondering why you had decided against following his blueprint with the stubborn block?

[Noble korhedron]

I was just wondering why you had decided against following his blueprint with the stubborn block?

CRAP, CRAP and CRAP!! I must've missed that part of HHG's article. Let me go read it again, but if I do, I think it will operate with something like this:
Fr. Georg Lutz(100), with the Biting Hammer(10), heavy armour(4), shield(4), Talisman of Preservation(45) and the Crown of Command(35). 198 pts

I figure this is the best build for a COC Arch Lector, since I don't want to depend on the ward save prayer always going off, but I would also be willing to pay the extra 5 pts and replace the Talisman of Preservation with the Armour of Destiny(50). I'm just not sure which is better....

[Noble korhedron]

Having edited my original post, I'm just posting this to see if anyone has any comments...

Before anyone asks, I haven't actually fought with this list yet.

[Calisson]

Not sure about the Engineer's Opal Amulet. The cheaper, the better.

What is paramount with Griffons is the deployment.
You must have a pre-set deployment, which you would only adapt marginally to most enemies and terrains.
Could you elaborate?

The engineer obviously goes along with cannon & HBVG.
Remember that the engie may march 10" before giving its BS & reroll to one warmachine, which allows them to be at up to 17" apart at most. Of course, it is advisable to have a lesser distance.
Still, you should think early how to set them, the cannon preferably on a hill or on top of a building (yes, it is allowed, see p.109), while the HVBG better be in open terrain and each time it does not shoot, it should move to a more interesting location.
The trio engie/cannon/HBVG must prevent a single attackant to be able to wipe the two warmachines in a single round with overrun. The engie must interfere (he can provide his BS and reroll even in melee! - before dying).

Also, I understand Beasts fully, but why Fire? What synergies does it bring? I imagine it is for killing chaff.

[Noble korhedron]

@Calisson: I take your point about synergies, in which case do you think Shadow would be a better choice? And if I'm going with Fire, should I take it on all my magic users?

[Calisson]

Well, Beasts makes sense for you Lvl4, most spells are useful for your army filled with many rather weak infantry characters.

For the secondary spell caster, either you take the same Lore in order to guarantee the spell selection (and Beasts signature is worth to have twice!), or you take another Lore but then the Signature spell is the spell of choice, and probably a Lvl1 should suffice unless most other spells zould be useful.
The interest of Fire is Fireball, to clear chaff. I see no real use for a Lvl2.
Shadows has an excellent signature, but besides?
Light or Heavens might be considered for a Lvl2.

See Tactica: Balancing an Empire Army

[Noble korhedron]

@Calisson: So basically if I take Beasts on both, I automatically get the whole Lore 'cause Wizards can't double-up spells? How would you suggest I protect the second guy; I was planning on having the first bunker in the archers, as per HHG's article on W-E.....