Combined Armies - too many choices?

[TheSupremePatriarch]

I'm not sure if anyone else has had this kinda thing - I've been looking through the Khaine book trying to put together a new army list. I prefer having well-rounded armies that I can use against any opponent and until recently was mainly running a Warlock Bus.

Trying to put together combinations but don't really have any idea of what I want to do lol - kind want to use everything

Anyone got any decent combinations? So far I've put up a Sister Bus list, switching Warlocks for Sisters of the Thorn with an extra character thrown in. Other than that I've been trying to find a way to squeeze in Alarielle, Loremaster, PegMaster, Bolt Throwers, Dark Riders, White Lions, Warlocks, Waywatchers and more or less everything

How has everyone else been using Khaine?

[TheSupremePatriarch]

I've had exactly the same when I very briefly considered doing the Undead Legions...

[Daeron]

Ahh yes. I must confess it's one of the things holding me back a little in the ET mindset: the overdose of choices and combinations. We're given two whole armies to test, learn and master. Unless one had prior experience with the both of them, it's quite a steep learning curve. At my current gaming rate, I'm not likely to succeed in learning this at all. So I stick to Dark Elves, and may occasionally look at a single unit or character from a different army.

[Fade]

personally i love all the new options

these are some of my findings:

* I use an Archmage now instead of a SS, because of the Book of hoeth item (great with ET magic)
* Gladeguard with trueflight arrows are amazing ranged (core). Always hitting on 3's!
* Silverhelms are amazing chaff/anti chaff/ screen (core).
2+ armor save (with the Fireborn rule they can't even be hit by Lore of metal).
* Phoenix guard are great, also for a mage bunker.
* Anointed of Asuryan in Exectunioners. He gives the unit a 6+ wardsave and +2 MR (so 4+ wardsave against magic) and ITP.
Which gives your Execs time to cross the table without being magiced to death. ITP also helps.
* Sisters of the thorn for life/beast magic (I still prefer Warlocks, but can be nice to have this option)
* Sisters of Avalorn / Waywatchers are both amazing ranged, but rare choice makes it harder to fit them in imo.
* Loremaster of Hoeth for having all magic lores. Seems overwhelming to me, but still a nice option.

...hope that gave you some ideas.

I also made an all purpose list for a casual ET tournament,
without Witchelves/Execs (my meta is bored of them, so trying something different with the new options)
It did very well (won 4/4 games). Check it out:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=76275

also there is a great blog post about the best of _all_ the elf armies here:
http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=158&t=76008

[marcopollo]

Interesting options with all the elf combo's out there.

But, I too am like Haagrum. I would rather not get caught up in all the possible options to try out. I do not get alot of gaming in, and so would prefer to hone what I already have going on. I am starting a new race (OK) because I like the feel of the models and fluff.

[Calisson]

* I use an Archmage now instead of a SS, because of the Book of hoeth item (great with ET magic)

Just for the record, access to army book magic objects is limited to that army by RAW. The Host of Eternity is not a HE army.
So BoH item requires you to use a house rule - which seems very commonly accepted.

[Fade]

Interesting options with all the elf combo's out there.

But, I too am like Haagrum. I would rather not get caught up in all the possible options to try out. I do not get alot of gaming in, and so would prefer to hone what I already have going on. I am starting a new race (OK) because I like the feel of the models and fluff.

I didn't even mention all the small combinations yet, there are quite a lot of nice synergies to be found!
Some are so cheesy I won't even mention them, because it will make people cry

Personally i like to experiment heavily and try out new things all the time
You can always try to add only 1 unit, to complement a good armylist.
But nothing stopping you from playing DE only still best of the 3 imho.

Just for the record, access to army book magic objects is limited to that army by RAW. The Host of Eternity is not a HE army.
So BoH item requires you to use a house rule - which seems very commonly accepted.

Sorry for the double reply but you are all over the forum defending this statement, so i will kindly repeat my reply too hehe
Although your reasoning is sound, the concept of not being able to take AB items seems against logic and fun play.
Also a bit silly in my opinnion. My meta hasn't even discussed this nor do i see a need to.
I guess untill any official ruling i think of it as a non-issue. my 2 cents only.

[Calisson]

Same issue, same reply: fun>RAW.

However, I'd like to come back on this:

there are quite a lot of nice synergies to be found!
Some are so cheesy I won't even mention them, because it will make people cry

I have always encouraged the search of nice synergies - if it is legal, it's worth trying.
I am just cautious against winning at all cost - to the cost of the opponent's fun added to the cost of abusing the rules.

I apologize in anticipation if that post sounds too patronizing, that is not the intention but I don't find better words. I'm sure you know what you're doing.

In that way, T.D.' Eternal Host: Database, Builds & Combos might be slightly reconsidered, there is still plenty of cheese but not necessarily all that many people had in mind:

Overview of the Host of the Eternal King Army List Choices

Magic Items

- Cloak of Twilight
- Black Amulet
- Chillblade
- Black Dragon Egg
- Ring of Hotek
- Sacrificial Dagger
- Tome of Furion

- Spirit Sword
- Bow of Loren
- Moonstone
- Helm of the Hunt
- Acorn of the Ages
- Hail of Doom Arrow

Only common ones.

Character Builds

- Dark Elf Master on Dark Steed 1+AS
- Dark Elf Master on Dark Pegasus 4++ (2)
- Dark Elf Master on Dark Pegasus Cloak
- DE Sorcess Tome of Furion
- DE Supreme Sorceress on Dark Pegasus Cloak- Dreadlord Dark Steed
- Dreadlord Cold One
- Dreadlord on Dragon

- High Elf Archmage foot or Elven Steed
- Loremaster of Hoeth

- Waystalker Bow of Loren

Combos

Big block of Executioners with an Annointed, lvl 2 high Mage with Khaines ring, Death Hag for frenzy and Shadowdancer to negate rank bonus. Choppy fun in the name of the Eternal King!

Sisters of the Thorn with a Sorceress spamming Power of Darkness (those ranged attacks start to hurt after a few casts!)
BotWD Witch/Exec horde (that moves 20" the first turn because of Malekith) is probably somewhat broken too.

Tyrion with warlock bodyguard.

4++ ward against combat and shooting and 2++ against magic, loses fast cav rules but for 1000 pts that's tyrion and 15 warlocks so a plus 4 for casting soulblight and doombolt too.

If you want to stretch out the points 3 or 4 1+ masters/ Dreadlords and a champion, and then that's +5 to cast (20 models total) as well

wood elf high mage on a steed with warlocks, give the locks ablative wounds and just 6 dice doombolt all day .

Block of 10 Sisters with Wood Elf lvl 4 on High, Dreadlord, BSB master and 3 more Masters, all 1+ mundane and lance,1 with RoH. 2++ against magic, LoS for characters on 4++ Sisters, cast boosted Savage Beast of Horros, the characters are pumping out 25 S9 attacks on the charge, re-rolling to hit and wound.

[Fade]

I have always encouraged the search of nice synergies - if it is legal, it's worth trying.
I am just cautious against winning at all cost - to the cost of the opponent's fun added to the cost of abusing the rules.

I totally agree.
In my local gaming group we tell our opponent beforehand if the list is going to be cheesy/ competitive/ experimental/ fun
As to have a bit of a fair fight.

I even made a list without the usual Witchelves/ Executioners because people grew tired of them.
(here if anyone is interested: http://www.druchii.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=76275 )

I will try follow this up later with some more synergies I've found so far.
Although many can be found already on this excellent forum

[TheSupremePatriarch]

Awesome, cheers for these tips on combos guys.

So far I've thrown in Sisters and Glade Guard with Trueflight. Archamge with the Book is also another good one, I ended up going with a Wood Elf level 4 on High, as you can just build up counters and use them to remove wounds.

Block of WE and block of WL might be an idea? Silver Helms for chaff are a good idea, but do they lose fast cav with barding?

[Makiwara]

Silver Helms don't have fast cav to begin with, but they come out of core.

I've been talking to a WE player who plans to use them as a bus to deliver GW Stag riders for the impact hits with a WE High Mage in the second rank for the ablative armour counters which is a pretty tasty idea though. Oh and if you happen to be running the Eternity King, he can throw that unit 20' in to the backfield per turn for redonkulous maneuverability.

I really think the best part of the HOTEK list is the ability to build very strong fluff armies with a nice smattering of filth in there. Shade/Aesanar armies now have the option to use GW shades and Waywatchers to represent differing kinds of the same troops fluff wise, Wild Riders can be converted to be mounted Khainites, Assassins can be combat orientated 'Waystalkers' and Waystalkers used as sniper assassins, 'Dark Rider' armies can include WR, Reavers, GR and DR all as different kinds of Dark Rider; that's the strength of the HOTEK list to me. I'm going to add Witch Elves as 'Aesloec', essentially crazy psychedelic fueled wardancers and Swordmasters/Executioners as a 'Death Jester' style troop. So you can really make a balls out army that still fits really nicely to a cohesive theme.

[TheSupremePatriarch]

I've been considering another list, haven't fleshed it out as of yet.

Alarielle, Incarnate of life in a block of White Lions with a few characters, bsb, scroll caddy, maybe a combat master if it can be squeezed in, with a block of Treekin within 12 inches so they have 4+ armour and regen with 6++ if regen is lost.

A big combat block, the Treekin can serve as an anvil but still throw out some damage. World Dragon Banner and Regen from Alarielle make them survivable, White Lions can do a lot of damage and still protected by about 3 different ward saves.

The main problem I foresee is finding a decent amount of ranged support and chaff clearance, as I can either fit in some decent units of fast cav OR ranged support, but not both.

Any ideas?

[Searinox Nagharha]

The biggest problem for me is that if I want to put in everything I want I basicly end up with a WE army lead by a Dreadlord xD which... I want to avoid