Old World Magic System

[Saintofm]

I got the Core Rule Book on my phone, and watched part of a Squarebase Podcast on Youtube, here are My thoughts on the new magic system. What are yours?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X-MTgECw6Q&list=WL


Part of this is something One of the podcast duo brought something up they called the Ecconomy of Scale were you can apply it to the most of something. (5 attacks on the first rank vs 10 attacks for instance). and how do you think this will apply to the new lores (which I can get into in a different thread or this one later)

Dispelling Magic: Level 1 and 2 Wizards have a dispel range of 18 Inches, while 3 and 4’s have a dispel range of 24. They cannot dispel (or cast most spells for that matter) in combat. I think its in the 90 degree sight ark. Will check later, I am going back and forth finding out the place I was looking to move to may not be ready at all, so been going back and forth on packing and whatnot, so i havn't had a good hard look at the rules.

So now the question the pose is why have a Lordly Lv 3 o4 4 when you could field a bunch more level 1s. Dispelling is going to be powerful with a higher level wizard, as will the casting, but quantity has its own quality.


Choosing Lores and Spells: Some wizards can choose only from one lore. Our legacy rules just came out while others can choose from many more (say like an Empire Battle Wizzard). If the later of the case, choose that when you make up your army. You choose your spells, one per wizard level, as you deploy your units, rolling for them.

I am not sure if we are on 8th edition logic, with signiture sides aside, one spell per army.


Each Lore should have 6 numbered spells and a single signature spell (plus the signiture spells of each army). You roll for the spells on a D6, you each spell corresponding to a number on a D6. You cannot have multiples of the same spell on the same wizard, If a wizard rolls several of the same spells, they keep the one and reroll the others. Ex. I have a level 3 Supreme Sorceress that rolls three 4’s they would keep the one and roll two more dice. On the other hand if you don’t like one spell, you can replace it for the signature.

Wizards can’t cast if fleeing, off the table, and unless the spell’s target is self (the caster) or an assailment spell they Can’t be used in combat. Declare your target when you try to cast it. Can attempt to cast each spell one. Most do need line of sight they must be within the 90-degree arc of sight (Infront and peripheral vision). This means you cannot cast spells on stuff behind you.

Each spell has a difficulty value. Roll 2D6 and add the caster’s level and see if you beat the score. As with other leaks, Miscast table is back and that can pose its own problems.

Wizards attempt to dispel also add their level, but you also have a fated dispel where if you have no wizards you can try to dispel it without onuses. Like casting uses 2D6. Equal or beat the number the caster casted and its dispelled.

Double 6’s cannot be dispelled, but if the spell doesn’t have a perfect casting a double 6 to dispel also always succeeds. Fated Dispels have no range restrictions.

Oh, and dispelling has its own dangers as getting snake eyes on Dispelling also causes a miscast. So you have to calculate if this is worth it.


The spell Tyes.

Duration: Spelled out on the spell description, but otherwise assume ends the next friendly magic phase.
Enchantments and Hexes: Enchantments help your units, Hexes weaken your enemy’s. Both can stack on effects with other abilities and spells cast (but not the same spell over and over again), but whatever stat(s) get effected can’t drop below 1 or go over 10. They do not need line of sight, but like many spells they cannot be cast in combat. This is new as previous editions spells that would have had this moniker could be. You use them in the Conjuration subphase in the Strategy Phase. This is before Charges, but after say a Priest doing a prayer.

Conveyance: These help a character and/or unit move around. They are in the Remaining movement phase in the Movement phase. Like the other two spell types, it can’t be used in combat, but does not need a line of sight. As this is just before the shooting phase, this means you can really move shooting units around, and maybe get a unit to march than charge.

Magic Missile: Range shooting attack. Can have some real fun as they auto hit and deal quite a bit of damage. They are limited by their range, and like a gun or bow needs line of sight. Like most shooting attacks, cannot march and cast this, which is new as in the past wizards could march and shoot their magic missile.

Magical Vortex: Remains in Play, so unless the wizards ends the spell, dies, or leaves the battlefield (Like moving off the table in pursuit), or is dispelled during the dispeller’s Conjuration subphase, its on the battlefield. One dispel attempt each time, but if dispelling in the Conjuration thing, only need to dispel the base difficulty coast and not what the caster rolled. Used in shooting phase

The spells themselves have no target, they can’t be cast on a unit, but must be placed in a clear patch within the range (the center of the template being on the point they cast on.). From there they make a random movement which can get them on a unit (friendly or enemy). If they end their movement on a unit, they keep going the direction they were going until they are not move This means this can keep going over lots of units, hitting several. Like magic missile, it cannot be done in combat, or if the wizard has marched. Used in shooting phase. This sounds like

Assailment: This is used in combat, and can only be used against units the wizard is fighting in the melee. They get their normal attacks as well, so one attack that may or may not get a wound but this one gets at least one wound in. This is done at the wizards initiative, so unles they have Always Strike First or an Initiative of 10, chances are they are not going first. Then again they are auto hits.

What are your thoughts on the magic system?


I think this will take some time for vveteran players to get used to, but otherwise I think they are trying to keep things ballenced

[Calisson]

At first reading, there is something I cannot stand anymore since I played T9A, that's to roll for spells.
Otherwise, plenty of good ideas, in particular I like the dispell by wizards at a certain distance.

[Giladis]

What are your thoughts on the magic system?

I think a lot of people will be disappointed with their investment in Magic very soon. There are hardly any spell one can cast reliably (probability of 85%+) even with a L4 wizard. I have played a couple of games with a L4+L1 HE combo (who are superior casters due to Lileath's) and found it underwhelming. I can imagine for non-HE it is even worse. I'll have a couple of games now with Dwarfs to see how the games feel without bothering with magic but investing some points to disable casting even more than basic rules do.

[Saintofm]

What are your thoughts on the magic system?

I think a lot of people will be disappointed with their investment in Magic very soon. There are hardly any spell one can cast reliably (probability of 85%+) even with a L4 wizard. I have played a couple of games with a L4+L1 HE combo (who are superior casters due to Lileath's) and found it underwhelming. I can imagine for non-HE it is even worse. I'll have a couple of games now with Dwarfs to see how the games feel without bothering with magic but investing some points to disable casting even more than basic rules do.

I find the biggest issues are that most have a short range, maybe a foot and a half at most, most spells can't get be cast into or while in combat. Wizards are squishy as they ever have been and alot of spells bring them really close to being charged.

At first reading, there is something I cannot stand anymore since I played T9A, that's to roll for spells.
Otherwise, plenty of good ideas, in particular I like the dispell by wizards at a certain distance.

I also like the idea of dispells now also have the risk of miscasting, like its a battle of the mind and the otherwizard is pushing back or the dispelling wizard is useing a counter spell, and now their allergies are catching up to them.

[Saintofm]

I thought about doing a thread on the differnt lores of magic, but lets get all the magic stuff in one post and see what our thoughts are there. We have another thread for what we think of the new magic system, so maybe we can look at the spells. Dark ELves have Battle Magic, Daemonology, Dark Magic, Elementalism, and Illusion Lores, so will cover those before the others. As usually, what is the community's thoughts on these spells?

To see how easy it would be to cast some of these spells, I did 100 sets of 2 dice and see what numbers they have. So out of a 100 roll, it was easier to 5's, 6's, 7's (the most common one i had), 8's, and 9's. 10 is where is starts getting hard, and may need a level 2 or higher to get. Rolling 11's and 12's is painfuly difficult. I got 13 to 14 rolls with the 5, 6, 8, and 9's; 16 for 7, and 9 for 10. But I got maybe 3 rolls of 11 and 2 rolls of 12. Rolls of 2 were also rare thankfully, so If I say something is Moderate assume 8-10. Easy cast is 7 and less, and HARD 11+.

So battle Magic: The average difficulty for most of the spells is a 9, so right at the moderate difficulty, and seems to be the main lore for battle mages.

The Signature spell is easy to cast assailment spell called Hammer Hand. Get it off, and deal 2D3 S4 hits with an ap of -2. In a duel, this can get some extra wounds in, and outside of that can do some good. Small amount of damage, but easy enough for a level 1 to use.

Fireball: The old standby still works. Moderate difficult if 8 to cast, 24 inch ranged magic missile that deals 2D6 S4 Flaming hits. Its wonderful! Stranger
than previous edditions, its good to have!

Curse of Arrow Attaction: A hex with a 21" range, Easy Casting. I want to say this feels like an old High Elf Spell or a old Lore of Heaven spell. Regardless the effective unit now has to worry about shooting units even more as any shots aimed at it reroll all 1's to hit. Not much, but if you roll particularly bad, this could mean the difference between hitting and not.


Pillar of Fire: It moves on a Small Blast Templat D6 inches the caster wants on the Start of Turn Phase. This patch of now dangerous terrain causes any unt (Friend or foe) it goes over or is foolish enough to move through it to take D3+3 S3 -2AP flaming hits. Not alot of hits, not alot of hits and ones at an average strength, BUTTTTTT being a template that can't stop on a unit, I can easily see this moving over several units depending on how tightly packed they are. Templates in general are a bane of hoard armies, so if they like to Zerg Rush here's your answer.

Oaken Sheild: Another Easy one, that has a range of self. This enchantment gives the caster and the unit they join a 5+ ward save against all wounds.

Curse of Cowardly Flight is another fun one. SHort range, 15 inches, so dangerously close in my opinion, but if cast this moderately difficult spell can cause a unit to panic. Even units like Slanneshii Warriors of CHaos will have to take a panic test, and if failed they give ground (move back 2 inches). Not a whole lot, but if its an enemy shooty unit they have now moved so now they have a -1 on their shooting (or -2 if they have something ponderous). I see this as something to screw with enemy units.

Overall half easy, half moderate. Nothing a level 1 or 2 can't handle in casting. Perfect for a new player. Your thoughts before I go over Daemonology>